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  1. #1
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    Looking for test users in SF area

    We are currently looking for test users for a exciting new roasting system.

    Although the system has been in successful commercial use for almost six years now as a test program, we are finalizing the design and preparing for a full rollout. Over $12 million has gone into the devlopment of this patented system and it represents what many who've seen it in action, say is a "revolutionary" development in the industry.

    What makes it unique? First the system is entirely smokeless and ventless. Using catalysis the system transforms the smoke via chemical reaction to CO2 and water vapor. The catalysed exhaust is then routed through a heat exchanger which heats the new incoming fresh air intake. (After a few roasts, the stored heat accumulates and the computer starts to reduce heater and electrical usage as it create its own heat through the combustion and reaction. Your coffee becomes fuel!) The exhaust is then condensed and cooled and sent through three different filter media, the last of which are two very robust HEPA filters. Finally, it exits out of the top of the system (over six feet up) as slightly warmer than room temperature (90-115 degrees) clean smokeless air. We actually often run the machines in our lab without any filtration other than the catalyst. The system is also fully enclosed. No afterburners, chimneys, expensive venting or dangerous "hot" spots. It can sit anywhere inside a retail establishment safely, which it has now at 28 locations in the past five years of testing and development.

    In addition to the advanced catalysis which was specially designed for this system by industry pioneer Englehardt, the system utilizes many other high tech approaches. State-of-the-art process control software, a touch-screen PC, simple user interface tools and our patented system of laser reflectometry complete the package. With the laser we track and control the roasting process "in-line" through color. This basically allows anyone, experienced or not, to create a perfect and consistently identical roast every time. The system replaces the "roast master" with unmatched computer and laser precision.

    The operation is simple. The user uses the touch screen to select a bin (variety), a poundage and a type of roast. Done. (There are plenty of advanced features as well, such as creating blends and customizing the roast profile on the fly). A "carousel" or merry-go-round as some call it, with 16 bins (hence 16 different varities) storing almost 300lbs. of green coffee spins to the selected bin or bins inthe case a blend was selected. The beans drop into the scale and then into the drum. That's it and you can walk away! While you're off doing something important, a laser beam is being projected through a window in the drum that sends back a color response to a colorimeter. That in turn is fed into the computer which makes adjustments to the roast profile (real-time) and monitors the roast development adjusting all of the machine's individual systems as needed. When the coffee has been roasted to the selected roast parameters, the heat treatment is terminated and the coffee is dropped into a cooling system, cooled and then dropped into a canister. All one needs to do is empty the canister after each roast. Pretty simple.

    In most of our current locations a low level clerk is put in charge of roasting. The "roast master" at one of our locations in Santa Barbara, CA is a 16 year old part time high school student now roasting around 3500 pounds per month for a single store and coffee bar. Her boss just got her a second machine. The point is that the system makes anyone not only an expert but perfect. You can't fool the laser!

    This machine finally solves the inconsistency problems of time and temperature and provides a truly automated system which does not require experience or monitoring. It is unaffected by water content, ambient air, humidity, etc. Roast times vary by weight and frequency of roasts. A 5lb. French roast can take anywhere from 11-19 mintues depending on the state of pre-heatedness. The roaster has a maximum 5lb. yield (roasted) and a minimum of 1lb.

    The last item of interest is the econmics. What this machine also does is remove a level of distribution and cost. With fuel prices where they are this is becoming increasingly important. With the FRS system you shed the component costs of the wholesale roaster. Our average user is generally getting a fresher product for anwhere from as little as $2.60lb. to $6.00lb which includes our fee. Those same locations were previously paying $5.50lb to $12.00lb for the same coffee. That's an incredible margin increase that can't be ignored. But when you don't have the cost of the roaster's drivers, truck, insurance, bags, boxes, rent, equipment, taxes, repairs, maintenance, personnel... I think you get the picture.

    And just for the record, the system has already been recognized by many industry professionals for its ease of use and outstanding consistency as it was made the official roaster of the Kona Coffee Festival a few years ago. Virtually every cupper made note of its ability to acheive such a high level of precision.

    We are seeking roasters, coffee shops and other venues looking for increased margin, fresh roasted coffee and to help us finish development for our national rollout. This stage will only involve the West Coast, preferably, from San Francisco south to San Diego and potentially selected areas in Greater Seattle. There is no equipment cost and we do not and will not sell the machines. We will charge a roasting fee per pound and require only an operating agreement. We pay for all maintenance (except for air filters). Simply, you pay only for what you roast. We can pretty much guarantee it will be about half of what you pay now for coffee that is not nearly as fresh and nowhere close to the level of consistency you will be able to achieve on your own.

    The machine is not small. It is roughly the size of a large refrigerator at 72"H x 34"W x 50"D and weighs approxmately 1200lbs. It is easily moved as it is on large industrial grade locking casters. It requires 208, 220, 240 single phase 50 amp service (60 amp recommended). This is not a home roaster nor is it really designed for heavy commercial wholesale roasting although we do have people doing that and will consider wholesalers. We seek those requiring between 20 and 100 pounds of roasted finished coffee per day. You must also be willing to spend limited time with our engineers regarding usage and provide feedback for improvements or changes to our staff. We may also ask to visit your site with potential customers. A non-disclosure agreement is required. Roasting fees vary with volume but genarally start at a maximum of $1.50 per pound. We will be selecting only fifty sites for this program stage. If interested please contact us. Looking for some team players!

    Matt Weisberg - General Manager
    Fresh Roast Systems, Inc.
    2536 Pulgas Ave.
    Palo Alto, CA 94303

    T: 650-325-1795
    F: 650-325-1796

    mweisberg@freshroastsystems.com

    You may also like to visit our new website at:
    http://www.freshroastsystems.com

  2. #2
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    Read the rules....no spam please.
    so this machine will replace the"roast master" eh? So it can buy and cup coffee..pretty impressive
    "Wine is for aging, not coffee."
    Ken Hutchinson, Starsky and Hutch

  3. #3
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    I apologize if you consider this as spam. This was the only offer made anywhere because I thought the audience would be receptive and interested.

    Also consider that we are financing the entire deal at significant cost. We are not asking anyone to put any money up. We are not looking for investors. We do not sell or rent the machines. We are offering a drastic reduction in costs to the user and a system allowing anyone to achieve perfection in their roasting. We are simply trying to introduce what we see as a very helpful tool to people who want to get into the business that may have no experience in the roasting field or limited time to be a "roast master" and would be aided with an automated system and cost reduction.

    As far as buying and cupping coffee we have a number of contacts that we will refer to any user that will help people with that free of charge. We do not sell green coffee and are not looking to do so. We simply want to complete development of the technology.

    Topher, you seem to be one of the more advanced coffee professionals from what I've read. I would think you would embrace new technology and explore. I would like to invite you to come and visit us or go to one of our sites, and see this technology in action. I think you'll be impressed. I have yet to meet a coffee professional who isn't. As a matter of fact, I'll make you a deal. You come see the system. If the system and the deal to use it isn't all of what I say, I'll pay for your trip.

    Regards

  4. #4
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    Sorry still reads like spam to me. You say "We do not sell or rent the machine: Ummm...then what is your "fee" for? I am not trying to be a stick in the mud but I do not honestly think a computer can take the place of the "art" of roasting. I mean I can sit there and drop coffee in watch a timer and say duh huh...golly we iz at 19 minutes...lets drop this sucker. Its not the color its how you get to that color through air-flow and heat control. But hey...don't ask me...ask your 16 year "lower level clerk"(your words not mine...and I am sure he really appreciates that" On another note...you might want to check laws in the state of California as to what children are alowed to do. I know in some states "children" under the age of 18 are not alowed to even use an espresso machine. As I said before I have nothing against a person trying to make a buck...but there is a section in this forum for sales pitches. One last question...is this another monster roaster?
    "Wine is for aging, not coffee."
    Ken Hutchinson, Starsky and Hutch

  5. #5
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    Not even close to a Monster Roaster...

    This is technology that I will put up against the best roast master in the world... and I will win, with the best cuppers you can find. Consider it a challenge. I've already got cuppers and brokers from the best in the world telling me so. The computer and laser can do it better and more accurately and consistently. I'll put our 16 year old clerk with our machine against the best roast master in the world with a Probat, Ambex or other 150 year old technology. A guy with a wooden spoon and an opinion. Can you calculate a dynamic roasting profile in your head... on the fly? Can you calculate all of the variables and adjust the heaters and air flow every few miliseconds to fit the required profile? And by the way, Probat has been trying to license our technology for years. Ask Willem Boot. He's the first one who approached us on behalf of Probat. He knows what our system can do.

    Get me your email and I'll send you a roast. You tell me how you like it and then make your decision. I'm totally confident you will become a believer.

    But then again, if you're a wholesale roaster, we're the enemy. Our machine puts most local wholesalers out of business. If you're selling whole bean or beverage you still don't want to pay for the roaster's rent or car payment. Our clients pay nothing but a fraction of the wholesale roaster's shipping and handling costs. $3.50 for top of the line FRESH coffee. If you can match that please tell me. I know you can't. We save the average coffee shop $36,000 a year. Please tell me how that's bad?

  6. #6
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    Interesting article from Willem Boot...

    http://www.roastmagazine.com/currentiss ... rules.html

    With lighter roast styles you will obtain true coffee flavor with complex and potentially sweet, refreshing attributes. Try to build your market niche with a lighter roasting style! It must be noted that roasting coffee to a lighter degree, like light or medium light, puts much more emphasis on the level of skills of your roaster operator. Fully automatic roast profiling systems are generally not capable of developing excellent tasting lighter roast profiles and as a result the roaster operator must manually ensure that the proper roasting protocol is followed.

    so back to your original statement....
    "This basically allows anyone, experienced or not, to create a perfect and consistently identical roast every time. The system replaces the "roast master" with unmatched computer and laser precision."
    Is it just me or is this conflicting what Willem Boot wrote in his article? I am a bit confused on this...you said he approached and embraced your system but in this article, he says that "Fully automatic roast profiling systems are generally not capable of developing excellent tasting lighter roast profiles."
    Could you shed some light on this for us?
    "Wine is for aging, not coffee."
    Ken Hutchinson, Starsky and Hutch

  7. #7
    jax
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    Shed a Light?

    Ya Topher

    He can shed a laser light. I'm with you bro! There is so much more to roasting then turning raw to cooked. I have found that roasting takes in all my sences. Sight, smell, hearing, and tasting. I have over the years learned to trust my sences, not just a set profile. How about you?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by topher
    Interesting article from Willem Boot...

    http://www.roastmagazine.com/currentiss ... rules.html

    With lighter roast styles you will obtain true coffee flavor with complex and potentially sweet, refreshing attributes. Try to build your market niche with a lighter roasting style! It must be noted that roasting coffee to a lighter degree, like light or medium light, puts much more emphasis on the level of skills of your roaster operator. Fully automatic roast profiling systems are generally not capable of developing excellent tasting lighter roast profiles and as a result the roaster operator must manually ensure that the proper roasting protocol is followed.

    so back to your original statement....
    "This basically allows anyone, experienced or not, to create a perfect and consistently identical roast every time. The system replaces the "roast master" with unmatched computer and laser precision."
    Is it just me or is this conflicting what Willem Boot wrote in his article? I am a bit confused on this...you said he approached and embraced your system but in this article, he says that "Fully automatic roast profiling systems are generally not capable of developing excellent tasting lighter roast profiles."
    Could you shed some light on this for us?
    Keeps him in business though, doesn't it?

    Please tell me what a roast master does that can accurately duplicate a profile? What are they looking at during development, especially in a light roast? It has to be almost 100% color development. If it's a roasting profile then it's straight data that the computer can more easily duplicate than any human. The roast master is more subject to environmental variables that are unseen by the humen eye but not the machine as well. It's like the wine industry Topher. The guys with technology and scientists from Cal were scoffed at by the "artisian craftsmen". Well they all use the big stainless tanks and technology now because the old world methods were proven no match for technology. Coffee is no different. Just a little behind the times.

    Selecting green coffee, sourcing and blending are the craft. Roasting is simply a labor in the process. Tell me what you look at in a roast. What exactly influences your actions? I'll bet you the laser and other electronic sensors are looking at the same variables as you except with far more precision than the human eye is capable of. Can you look at a bean being cooked and make an adjustment to the roast in a millisecond becaue of an unseen environmental change? Can you calculate the actinic response of the bean as it cooks? Can you tell exactly how much oil has been extracted? We can. It takes someone a couple of seconds just to get a sample out. It's like comparing using your fingers to calculate something versus a calculator.

    Why are you so afraid of the technology? It would make your job easier to be able to duplicate roasts exactly, right?

    I did 24 roasts yesterday in the lab. 24 out of 24 were undifferentiable on the Agtron. I used four different types of coffee to boot. I will bet you the farm that no roast master in the world could do that. So given the roast profiles could be established it's just a matter of duplicating it.

    Actually I'd rather see a discussion on the use of modern technology in the roasting process. I think it's long overdue and could unravel a lot of the voodoo I see in "roasting profiles". There is no craftsmanship in the burning of hydrocarbons. It's pure science. Once the formula is figured out machines and computers are far more capable of duplicating it.

    I'll make you an offer. Send me some of your green and some finished product. I'll bet I can duplicate it exactly to your satisfaction and I'm no roast master, just a software engineer. But I've done the Pepsi challenge with more cuppers and roast masters than I care to think about and we're batting 1000. Embrace the technology.

  9. #9
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    Re: Shed a Light?

    Quote Originally Posted by jax
    Ya Topher

    He can shed a laser light. I'm with you bro! There is so much more to roasting then turning raw to cooked. I have found that roasting takes in all my sences. Sight, smell, hearing, and tasting. I have over the years learned to trust my sences, not just a set profile. How about you?
    Sorry there's very little mystery to burning hydrocarbons. It's very straightforward science. Profiles? That's a little myth created by roast masters, few who are actual chemists or engineers. Ask a roast master to analyze the carbon chain and they look at you cross eyed. It's all a guessing game to those not trained in organic chemistry. Over years and years they learn what happens and use it in practice but they don't really know what's really happening. Does anyone know what by-product has a boiling temperature lower than water and is subject to sublimation? Doubt it. Do you know how many gasses there are and at what temperature they turn to solids? Do you know the chemical effect to final product of adding oxygen to a roast? Do you know the rate of CO2 reduction and its effect? It's very interesting technology which I know few roast masters have explored. Most depend on experience without tools. We programmed the machine to do all of these things.

    And can you adjust your roast using all those senses real time? Tasting a hydrocarbon before combustion and determining anything is pretty tricky. That's something I'd like to see. I'm willing to bet you can't tell a thing from taste or smell. Hearing a crack on a light roast? it's pretty much done by then. Full city is cracking after it's done. Can you tell the difference in color from 1-3 agtron units with the human eye? I think not. You're simply guessing.

    This machine isn't for the roast profile voodoo promoters/roasters. It's for those paying the voodoo promoters. If you're paying more than $5.00 for high grade coffee, you don't need to. I will personally guarantee that for $3.00 or less you can exceed the coffee quality you're getting now. It's very simple math. You're cutting out whatever profit the roaster is making and his/her shipping costs. Unless the roaster is selling to you at a loss you're paying for his/her profit and shipping. You're also eliminating his/her inconsistencies and additional component costs. Once you've dupicated his/her roast profile and have a computer controlling the consistency you no longer need the roast master. You do need a green coffee program though. That's what a roast master should be doing.
    Now if you're a roast master not involved in the sourcing, blending or buying of green then your job is pretty much in jeopardy because there's no reason to pay your salary when a machine can do it for 1/4 the price and no benefits or worker's comp.

  10. #10
    jax
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    Just a wonderful warm fuzzy feeling

    Well! I guess all that's left is to give that big ole refrigerator sized roaster a big ole hug. (Embracing the technology) wearing your white lab coat of course.

    All kidding aside. So called guessing at the roast profile is part of the challenge of roasting which is what I embrace. Call me a fool, but I like having my hands in all that goes on in the process. Take that away and whats left? A Vendaroast. You know! Kind of like the cappuccino machines at am/pm markets. Oh Yum!

    JMHO

 

 
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