how I can choosing?

[jaf]

I want to buy commercial espresso machine to my shop, and I have three options:

Bezzera, Modal no: Ellisse 2011 PM
Nuova simonelli, Modal no: appia
La pavoni, Modal no: BAR T 3M

Note: all machines are semi automatic and 3 groups


Can you help me in choosing the best type and tell me why?

 

[John P]

Jaf,

Why are these your only options?

Is it ONLY these machines? Are they used? Please explain.

 

[jaf]

Jaf,

Why are these your only options?

Is it ONLY these machines? Are they used? Please explain.

Thank you very much on reply,

All these option is new and not used, and why are these your only options? because are
available in my area, only.

In fact, I need more information about how choosing machine to choose right option.

 

[John P]

Jaf,

OK.

The Bezzera and the La Pavoni should not be considered.

The NS Appia is a passable machine, but not one I would spend money on as the centerpiece of my coffee shop.
If you can source NS, then I would opt for the Aurelia, which is a far superior machine and one worth purchasing.
There is not a huge price difference between the two, and whatever difference there is is worth spending.
You should be able to get one for $8-9K for a 2 or 3 group semi-auto or $15-$16K for a T3.

The 2 biggest factors are:

1) Availability of repair technician 7 days a week.

2) Quality of machine and reputation of manufacturer (quality of build, temperature stability, repeatability, ease of use, etc.)

 

[CoffeeJunky]

Like John said, availability of the service tech is the number one factor for choosing a machine.

I would recommend different machine and any of the machine can be purchased.
Where are you located and what is the price you are being quoted for those three.....

 

[jaf]

John P & CoffeeJunky

Thank you again

But if you can tell me what are defects of Bezzera and La pavoni,or
in other words what reasons of prefer machine on another , I mean here technical features only,because other service such as training or repair differ from agency to another.

also if you tell me name of other good brands?


what is the price you are being quoted for those three.....?


Nuova simonelli, Modal no: appia $ 5200
Bezzera, Modal no: Ellisse 2011 PM $ 4200
La pavoni, Modal no: BAR T 3M $ 3500

 

[John P]

Jaf,

Look at what are recognized as the best shops in the world. They all use the same handful of machines. This is not because of hype. It is because they are superior machines.

La Marzocco- Any model.

Mistral- Any model.

Synesso- Any model

Nuova Simonelli - Aurelia.

These manufacturers and machines are proven commodities in terms of build, intra shot and inter shot stability, and consistent and superior results. With the exception of being friends with the manufacturer, I don't think you can get a reputable 3 group for under $9k.

These machines are designed to deliver consistent results from shot 1 to shot 1000 day after day without having to do any tricks, special flushing, warming up or what have you.

With respect to cost being related to function, you get what you pay for.
Look at the best machines and then find the best price you can on those machines. You can often find far better prices at larger national distributors than you can at smaller local ones. Don't limit yourself and don't be cheap when it comes to your espresso machine.

 

[jaf]

I understand from your reply that the machines Machines proposed
contain these features:

- intra shot and inter shot stability, and consistent and superior results.
-designed to deliver consistent results from shot 1 to shot 1000 day after
day without having to do any tricks.

while In the other such as I writing in first do not exist.

I reached with supplier of NS and he have Aurelia two group
only by $ 9400,while Appia(3 group) by $ 5200.

Is the Aurelia deserve difference in price?
if you can get me some source about choosing and technical features or tell our about it.

 

[John P]

What Model Aurelia?

A 2 group semi-auto s/b about $8000 and a 3 group for $9300.
A 2/3 Group Aurelia T3 for $14500 and $15500 (or less) respectively.

Here. Here. Here. And Here.

And yes, the price difference is worth it.

As far as maintenance goes, all basic routine maintenance you should be able to handle. It's the emergency pump replacement or major electronic things that you may need a professional for.

In the scheme of things, whether you are spending $80K or $250K on your coffee shop, the difference in price is small, but the difference in performance is huge.
Now, if you are not sourcing excellent, properly roasted and fresh espresso, and using good burr grinders, then it really does not matter.

It's YOUR shop, so buy what you are comfortable with, but realize that the decisions you make prior to opening will reflect on every decision you make down the road. Start with a pattern of excellence and it will carry through with all that you do. But make it a point to clearly understand WHY they are better, don't just take my word for it.

Find 3 or 4 shops using an Appia and then find 3 or 4 shops using Aurelia, order several espresso and taste the difference for yourself.


Best of luck!

 

[jaf]

Thanks and I have new two question:

1- I can cede water boiler and use espresso
machine as water sources to make tea?

2- What are better grinder
Santos #60, Bezzera or La pavoni?

 

[John P]

jaf,

Exactly where are you located? I am wondering because the choice of equipment you are listing is unusual.

 

[jaf]

jaf,

Exactly where are you located? I am wondering because the choice of equipment you are listing is unusual.

In Bahrain

 

[John P]

I am thinking the Santos looks like the best of those three, however if you can get the MDX grinder from Nuova Simonelli, that would be a superior choice.

If they are available, my choices for grinders would be 1) Mazzer 1a) Compak

 

[CoffeeJunky]

Mazzer and Compak are very expensive but they are the best ...

 

[jaf]

John P are entitled to surprised about my choices which is probably not high quality, and is no reason that our region does not contain elegant cafes using high quality machine.

But there are a lot reasons of lack good machines , the most important it:

1. Most of the existing espresso cafes are franchise as Starbucks, Costa, Columbus, Paul ... etc.
2. Many cafes import equipment from abroad or nearby countries.

In conclusion, thank you very much for follow up and reply in this topic
I wish did not bother you by large number of questions.