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  1. #11
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    The 15 bar hype is really for marketing as in "my pump is stronger than yours", lmao. The vibe pump may be capable of 15 bars of pressure, but 8-9 bars is the overall best range for extracting. By the time plumbing, OPVs, etc are factored in it's just a number. Flow rate and temperature are more important than pressure IMBHO.

    By pressure enhancing I'm talking about pressurized baskets or portafilters.

    I'm a fan of making what you have work. People want more automated interaction to the point of there being no challenge. Weighing coffee to .1 gram, weighing the actual extraction, setting PIDs to .1 degree tolerance, having auto-tamping, etc. takes ALL fun and skill out of the equation. Best experience I've ever had with coffee was having a 37 year old Olympia Cremina, a 60 year old hand grinder and a tamper I made for it.
    I'm a legend among my own kind... you my friend are just a legend in your own mind. Later!

  2. #12
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    Jan 2014
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    Charlotte, NC
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    141
    About my $3 De'Longhi, I guess the suggested retail runs $178? They are selling new around $78, I went for one that said it was used for $56, I had $43 accumulated in my Amazon credit card rewards which got it down to $12.99 with free two day shipping, well the invoice showed it was not going to ship two days, so I contacted Amazon to question the shipping, they replied a mistake had been made and they couldn't fix as it already shipped 5 day so they gave me $10 credit, so the De'longhi ended up costing me $2.99 out of pocket! Once the machine arrived I noted that it was actually brand new, just that the box it was in was mashed in! That's how you can buy a $178 De'Longhi for $2.99!

    Mike

  3. #13
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    Oct 2013
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    Milwaukee, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow745 View Post
    To the OP, I've had the pleasure of owning/using some high end\very capable equipment over the years, both at home and commercially. My current setup is a Kitchen Aid Pro Line espresso machine (made by Gaggia) and a Baratza Vario grinder. What I extract daily is at least 95% as good as the best double shots I extracted from commercial setups. As I have said MANY times, fresh coffee and skill trump everything...
    It sounds like you're equating your K/A and Vario to the OP's equipment, saying that if you can get shots 95% as good as commercial equipment, he can too. My thinking is that fresh coffee and skill are the top priority, but that is not to say it is possible to get great results with any equipment simply because you have fresh coffee and skill.

    I've eased up on my coffee-snob attitude a ton over the years, and I currently say if a person likes their routine and their results, then they are doing 'it' right.

    The other part of the equation is how a person's equipment is used in their daily routine. If they're only making milk drinks that allow a person to fudge on the quality of the espresso, lower-end equipment can suit their needs. Or, if they only making drinks for themselves or a SO, that makes sense too. But if you're having six people over for dinner and they all want a couple lattes or double shots, it won't be much fun on low-end equipment.

    IMHO there is an imaginary line somewhere of what level of equipment a person needs to make good, genuine espresso. Also, not only will better equipment give better results, those results will be repeatable; IOW, sub-par equipment might give a person very good results once or twice out of ten attempts, whereas good equipment should give you good results all ten times.

  4. #14
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    Boca Raton, FL
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    160
    I'll just add I started with a Delonghi Bar32 few years ago, which is the same internally as the EC155. Doesn't make espresso, no Delonghi does, it's more akin to a shot of drip. They use pressurized portafitlers which force coffee through a tiny whole (hence why these are normally cheap wedding gifts etc) as majority of the population has no idea they should use a grinder or have a good grinder at that, they use preground stale coffee and the pressurized portafilters let them do that. No crema, what looks like crema is just the froth from the coffee being shot out through a tiny hole (imagine sticking your finger over the end of a hose and spraying the water). That's not to talk down the OP or their equipment, just is what it is, they also don't operate at the correct temps for espresso nor have any stability b/c the boilers are so tiny and there's no metal or anything to stabilize really.

    You can depressurize the baskets by removing the pressure clip mechanism like I did, or swap in a Krups basket that fits. But if you do that, you'll need a far better grinder. There's no grinder for $15 except for a blade grinder or bean masher, actually really anything under 60 doesn't really have a burr set, they really just mash the beans, or in the case of a blade grind chop them up. If you really want to get closer to espresso, depressurize the portafilter and your looking at around $300 min for a real espresso grinder (Preciso or Le'Lit), as nothing below that range will have a good burr set for espresso, stepless dialing, or consistency and fines control.

    if your gonna keep the $15 grinder, leave the machine as is. Unfortunetly the Delonghi are disposable as well, no parts, can't be fixed and even dealing with them under warranty you'd have better luck finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow lol. Mine started having issues after 1 year so I had to chuck it in the trash, same thing for two other people I know that started with EC155s.

    I modded my Bar32 and even using a Preciso on it, my CC1 setup and same Preciso is far far far better for real espresso and drinks. Just to give you an idea. hate to say it but if your current setup is the same as your local coffee shop, they don't know what their doing and shouldn't be running a coffee shop (again no offense meant). Plenty of coffee shops and roasters that have no clue what their doing lol, so hard to go by that. But as long as your happy with your setup and drinks, that's what matters.

  5. #15
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    I've never had a snob attitude and encourage people to make the very best with what they have regardless of cost. Point I was making is my current setup is considered barely usable with the lame a$$ Coffee Geek/Home-Barista crowd, but I have dialed it in to the point of being exceptional. If you control the water temperature and pressure you will have good/consistent espresso. When I first joined a few forums all I read was you have to be willing to spend this much to achieve this, blab blah blah... hardly the case IMBHO. Fresh coffee and skill are first and foremost. People always want to rant about the grinder being the absolute most important part of the equation, but it's nothing without good coffee and some skill dialing it in. Put any equipment in front of me and I WILL tweak it to the point of extracting something worthy from it.
    I'm a legend among my own kind... you my friend are just a legend in your own mind. Later!

  6. #16
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    Charlotte, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfer View Post
    I'll just add I started with a Delonghi Bar32 few years ago, which is the same internally as the EC155. Doesn't make espresso, no Delonghi does, it's more akin to a shot of drip. They use pressurized portafitlers which force coffee through a tiny whole (hence why these are normally cheap wedding gifts etc) as majority of the population has no idea they should use a grinder or have a good grinder at that, they use preground stale coffee and the pressurized portafilters let them do that. No crema, what looks like crema is just the froth from the coffee being shot out through a tiny hole (imagine sticking your finger over the end of a hose and spraying the water). That's not to talk down the OP or their equipment, just is what it is, they also don't operate at the correct temps for espresso nor have any stability b/c the boilers are so tiny and there's no metal or anything to stabilize really.

    You can depressurize the baskets by removing the pressure clip mechanism like I did, or swap in a Krups basket that fits. But if you do that, you'll need a far better grinder. There's no grinder for $15 except for a blade grinder or bean masher, actually really anything under 60 doesn't really have a burr set, they really just mash the beans, or in the case of a blade grind chop them up. If you really want to get closer to espresso, depressurize the portafilter and your looking at around $300 min for a real espresso grinder (Preciso or Le'Lit), as nothing below that range will have a good burr set for espresso, stepless dialing, or consistency and fines control.

    if your gonna keep the $15 grinder, leave the machine as is. Unfortunetly the Delonghi are disposable as well, no parts, can't be fixed and even dealing with them under warranty you'd have better luck finding the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow lol. Mine started having issues after 1 year so I had to chuck it in the trash, same thing for two other people I know that started with EC155s.

    I modded my Bar32 and even using a Preciso on it, my CC1 setup and same Preciso is far far far better for real espresso and drinks. Just to give you an idea. hate to say it but if your current setup is the same as your local coffee shop, they don't know what their doing and shouldn't be running a coffee shop (again no offense meant). Plenty of coffee shops and roasters that have no clue what their doing lol, so hard to go by that. But as long as your happy with your setup and drinks, that's what matters.
    Here is my grinder, they said it was a burr grinder, what do you think? Electric Burr Coffee Grinder | cutleryandmore.com also, I don't under stand your suggestion to depressurize the basket, why do that?
    PS: Can any one explain the internals of a pro espresso machine, the difference's between them and a machine like mine?
    Last edited by mawil1013; 02-04-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  7. #17
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    Just measured the water temp with two temp probes, the water comes out at 194 F, is that a good spot?

  8. #18
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    https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/...almighty-crema

    They say; "The range is 7 to 11 grams per single espresso"

    EDITED: I've been screwed up, I've apparently been running barely half the grind (2.5 grams) and too much shot (1/3 cup). If I use the large grinder holder and fill it all the way to the top before tamping I get 8 grams, and instead of 1/3 cup I should be only collecting 1/8 cup, which is one ounce. Do I have it right now?

    mawil1013
    Last edited by mawil1013; 02-04-2014 at 08:06 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawil1013 View Post


    EDITED: I've been screwed up, I've apparently been running barely half the grind (2.5 grams) and too much shot (1/3 cup). If I use the large grinder holder and fill it all the way to the top before tamping I get 8 grams, and instead of 1/3 cup I should be only collecting 1/8 cup, which is one ounce. Do I have it right now?

    mawil1013
    8g for a 1oz. shot sounds like it's in the ballpark.


    Not to rub your nose in it, but when I said;
    I would strongly contend that what you're producing is espresso-like, but is not espresso. Have you been to a coffee shop where they know what they're doing and have proper equipment?
    You said;
    I have been to a local barista, I didn't note any massive difference
    If your local coffee shop is making espresso that resembles 2.5g ground coffee producing 1/3 cup output, you need a new shop.

    I trust you'll be enjoying your new results more. Or maybe not; if it gets closer to actual espresso, you may not like it at all. The great thing is, you were enjoying it at the old ratios and can simply go back to that, and be happy.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawil1013 View Post
    Here is my grinder, they said it was a burr grinder, what do you think? Electric Burr Coffee Grinder | cutleryandmore.com also, I don't under stand your suggestion to depressurize the basket, why do that?
    PS: Can any one explain the internals of a pro espresso machine, the difference's between them and a machine like mine?
    I would say that's barely passable as a burr grinder, cheap burr grinders are more like bean mashers. You depressurize if you want to resemble real espresso, but you need an espresso capable grinder (min of $300 and way up from there). Pressurized baskets like on DeLonghi force the coffee through a small hole whether stale preground, or poorly ground coffee etc, no crema etc, it allows people to think their drinking espresso (and not saying that to offend you at all). Real espresso machines have sturdy construction, metal for stability, large boilers, PID for boilers (mine controls temp adjustment, preinfuse on, e61 groups, h/x is a different beast. And yes 194 is way low, you want to be at least in the 199-201 range, and not just that but stable, DeLonghi and other similar machines don't really have group heads and tiny boilers so intrashot temp drop even further. I modded my Bar32 which is same as the EC155 and it was no where near my CC1 for espresso even using same grinder (baratza preciso) and steaming milk. I've played with temp a lot and I always stay around during 201 for the most part for all single origins or blends, I went down to low 190s and same beans tasted awful and sour.

    But like said, as long as you like your coffee and are happy that's what matters. I can tell you my Bar32 and fresh beans and Preciso made much better coffee than Charbucks lol
    Last edited by Surfer; 02-04-2014 at 10:57 PM.

 

 
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