auto commercial machine workings

[itsabean]

I'm curious about how commercial, fully auto espresso machines do the job? For one example, Melitta's C35 machine that's used by McD's comes to mind, but I know there are several others in use. Do these machines go through the usual grind, dose, tamp and extract via some type of group only with each of these steps executed automatically? If so, how do these machines handle the pucks after extraction? Or do they produce an extraction from a different set of steps?

 

[PinkRose]

The super automatic espresso machine seems to do it all for you.

I wouldn't be surprised if it collected the pucks and took out the trash too.

 

[CoffeeJunky]

The super automatic espresso machine seems to do it all for you.

I wouldn't be surprised if it collected the pucks and took out the trash too.

Lol. Super automatics will do all of the above and more. Not the taking out the trash part. lol
But quality of product is about the lower bottom of the scale. If you have fully trained staff, you would not want to use the Super Automatic machine.

 

[CCafe]

I find it funny how everyone wants to point the finger at the super auto and say because its a super its quality is far less than that of a traditional.

I've been repairing espresso machines now for a little over 12 years and the one thing I can tell you above all other things. Traditional machines are a LIE! You all want to say how bad supers are but the fact is espresso manufactures have been borrowing piece after piece from the super auto to enhance your traditional. Some of the very things that people have been touting on this very forum all came from the super auto.

Smart boiler technology
Precision controlled infusion
Electronic temp controlled water injection
Automated steam arm temp control
Electronic controlled group temp
Variable grinding
PC based programming

The list just goes on and on. The point is most of that now has ended up in your traditional machines. It took many years but its all now commonly found on just about every line out there. Yet it was taken from the machine many of you label sub par.

Honestly Supers take a lot of tuning to make awesome shots. If its not tuned right then yes your going to get a bad shot. There are quite a few business who use supers the way they were intended and they make great coffee. The other thing I can tell you is I've been to one too many coffee shops where they have a traditional machine and each barista basically served you their rendition of the drink you thought you ordered.

So back to the original question. Yes super's do all the steps automatically. The pucks often called dregs go to a drawer in most machines. However there are a few machines where the drawer is replaced with a pass through chute that allows you to place a trashcan underneath your espresso machine to catch all the dregs after they get knocked out of the machine.

 

[itsabean]

Thanks for the post, CCafe! As a newbie to using a semi-auto at home, I've wondered about the super autos. Frankly, I've been favorably impressed by what they can produce, but decided not to get into the inferior/superior wars that seem to quickly surface. Interesting to learn that super autos go through the usual steps followed by the manual process.

 

[CoffeeJunky]

I find it funny how everyone wants to point the finger at the super auto and say because its a super its quality is far less than that of a traditional.

I've been repairing espresso machines now for a little over 12 years and the one thing I can tell you above all other things. Traditional machines are a LIE! You all want to say how bad supers are but the fact is espresso manufactures have been borrowing piece after piece from the super auto to enhance your traditional. Some of the very things that people have been touting on this very forum all came from the super auto.

Smart boiler technology
Precision controlled infusion
Electronic temp controlled water injection
Automated steam arm temp control
Electronic controlled group temp
Variable grinding
PC based programming

The list just goes on and on. The point is most of that now has ended up in your traditional machines. It took many years but its all now commonly found on just about every line out there. Yet it was taken from the machine many of you label sub par.

Honestly Supers take a lot of tuning to make awesome shots. If its not tuned right then yes your going to get a bad shot. There are quite a few business who use supers the way they were intended and they make great coffee. The other thing I can tell you is I've been to one too many coffee shops where they have a traditional machine and each barista basically served you their rendition of the drink you thought you ordered.

So back to the original question. Yes super's do all the steps automatically. The pucks often called dregs go to a drawer in most machines. However there are a few machines where the drawer is replaced with a pass through chute that allows you to place a trashcan underneath your espresso machine to catch all the dregs after they get knocked out of the machine.

I am sure CCafe is correct in some ways. But as a traditionalist of coffee making, you will never be able to duplicate the same type of the shot we can pull from our machine with SAM(Super Automatic Machine). Yes you can pull pretty decent espresso base drinks from SAM and also you can get a decent espresso base drinks from Nesspresso machines as well. It all depends how you like your espresso. It all depends on your level of demand for your product. I would never use SAM. That is just me. And my business practice.

 

[Coffeefix]

28 years working on Bean 2 Cup and traditional machines myself.
I like technology, modern ideas keep the coffee world fresh.
However, most of the systems you quote were designed to help get a better coffee from B2C (fully automated) machines because most of the early ones were truly awful.
If some systems have jumped the gap to traditional why not? "traditional machines are a lie" wtf is all that about? We're talking about a machine that makes coffee and like most machines they have improved over the years. Plenty of tech from traditional machines went the other way too? Do super autos lie about that?
B2C machines are still not up to the standards of a traditional machine with someone who KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING stood in front of it -That my friends is the problem!
It turns out that a mechanism that replicates what a Barista can do with his arm is expensive, slow, needs regular maintenance and still isn't as reliable. As you say, they also need a lot of work to set up.
Add to the mix that the mechanism needs heating, a hot water supply from a boiler and a box to keep it all in and suddenly you have to add sensors, elements, cooling fans and a whole load of other stuff to try to get a decent coffee. The inside of a B2C machine isn't a great place to store coffee.
The problem, even with a well set up machine is that things change. Everything from the weather to the water has an effect - the biggest is the person stood in front of the machine. Unfortunately, B2C machines with their codes, keys and set-up training courses aren't too easy to alter when this occurs.
From time to time a supplier talks us into trying the latest B2C machine, hours of set up and experimenting ensue and eventually we think "wow, that's not bad". At that point, leave the machine for ten minutes then compare the next shot... Not been impressed yet. Don't even get me started on automated milk frothers, at best they are poor, at worst a health hazard!
Many coffee machine suppliers in the UK won't supply super autos for good reason. They are expensive, less reliable and less consistent at making great shots and therefore can get you a bad reputation. They just don't get used by anyone who understands and wants to produce truly excellent coffee. They simply aren't good enough...yet.
Even if they were on par with traditional machines would they be as popular? We all know coke tastes better from a cold glass bottle, tea tastes better from a bone china cup... Blindfolded we probably couldn't tell the difference but they are better!

 

[slurp]

One of our stores has a WMF machine. The shops does not smell like a coffee shop at all. It is so sealed up there is no coffee smell at all. Kinda of sad for a espresso bar not smelling like coffee.

Synesso Synesso Synesso!!!!!!!!!

 

[CoffeeJunky]

28 years working on Bean 2 Cup and traditional machines myself.
I like technology, modern ideas keep the coffee world fresh.
However, most of the systems you quote were designed to help get a better coffee from B2C (fully automated) machines because most of the early ones were truly awful.
If some systems have jumped the gap to traditional why not? "traditional machines are a lie" wtf is all that about? We're talking about a machine that makes coffee and like most machines they have improved over the years. Plenty of tech from traditional machines went the other way too? Do super autos lie about that?
B2C machines are still not up to the standards of a traditional machine with someone who KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING stood in front of it -That my friends is the problem!
It turns out that a mechanism that replicates what a Barista can do with his arm is expensive, slow, needs regular maintenance and still isn't as reliable. As you say, they also need a lot of work to set up.
Add to the mix that the mechanism needs heating, a hot water supply from a boiler and a box to keep it all in and suddenly you have to add sensors, elements, cooling fans and a whole load of other stuff to try to get a decent coffee. The inside of a B2C machine isn't a great place to store coffee.
The problem, even with a well set up machine is that things change. Everything from the weather to the water has an effect - the biggest is the person stood in front of the machine. Unfortunately, B2C machines with their codes, keys and set-up training courses aren't too easy to alter when this occurs.
From time to time a supplier talks us into trying the latest B2C machine, hours of set up and experimenting ensue and eventually we think "wow, that's not bad". At that point, leave the machine for ten minutes then compare the next shot... Not been impressed yet. Don't even get me started on automated milk frothers, at best they are poor, at worst a health hazard!
Many coffee machine suppliers in the UK won't supply super autos for good reason. They are expensive, less reliable and less consistent at making great shots and therefore can get you a bad reputation. They just don't get used by anyone who understands and wants to produce truly excellent coffee. They simply aren't good enough...yet.
Even if they were on par with traditional machines would they be as popular? We all know coke tastes better from a cold glass bottle, tea tastes better from a bone china cup... Blindfolded we probably couldn't tell the difference but they are better!

Well done. Thank you.