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Thread: The Aerobie????

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    Thanks for the information.....I always thought you always wanted a fine grind for the best extraction but I guess that isn't so! I wanted to say that my drip is manual drip......I like to have 100% control. I control the grind, the water temperature and the amount of saturation, plus the brew time. It seems I get the best results with a medium to find grind with a temp a bit below boiling.
    Yes, I've read and I find that the best water temp for extraction is between what, 195F-205F, which is water just off the boil for about 25+sec.

    Fine grinds, as far as I know, give a greater surface area for extraction and do extract more but it can be a fine line between greater extraction and over extraction. I think it's how water temp, grind size and steep time all inter relate to determine the extraction. Increase one like grind finer and you might have to decrease another to avoid over extraction. Not only that but fine grinds in a french press usually get pressed through and end up as sludge in your cup so very fine grinding is not recommended unless you're a high pulp kind of person.

    You can be too short on any variable and get under extracted coffee as well. Once you understand the variables and how they effect each other it's easier to experiment to hit the extraction that best suits your taste.
    Grinder: Macap M4 stepless, Zassenhaus kneemill
    Machine: Quickmill Vetrano, Olympia Cremina '67
    Brewers: Yama 5cup, ibrik, Bodum e Santos, french press, pour over drip
    Roaster: Hottop programmable

  2. #22
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    It is interesting how being off on one variable a little bit can make a noticable change in flavor, etc. Some days I'll make manual drip or french press that is absolutely incredible and the best cup of coffee I have ever had, then I'll make a cup the next day using the same fresh beans with a so-so result.

    I am using a blade grinder but ordered a burr grinder.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    It is interesting how being off on one variable a little bit can make a noticable change in flavor, etc. Some days I'll make manual drip or french press that is absolutely incredible and the best cup of coffee I have ever had, then I'll make a cup the next day using the same fresh beans with a so-so result.

    I am using a blade grinder but ordered a burr grinder.
    A burr grinder will make a difference you'll probably notice if it grinds evenly

    Yes, from day to day the same beans can taste different. I've had beans freshly roasted, specifically an Ethiopian Harrar roast, and the first brew was incredible. I opened the jar the roast was in too many times between brews and the next brew was terrible. That was a while ago when I liked to smell the fresh roast so I figure the beans somehow got oxidized and when stale fast. I don't do that anymore, in fact I leave the beans to degass with the lids on tight and only open the jars when I'm ready to blend and/or brew.
    Grinder: Macap M4 stepless, Zassenhaus kneemill
    Machine: Quickmill Vetrano, Olympia Cremina '67
    Brewers: Yama 5cup, ibrik, Bodum e Santos, french press, pour over drip
    Roaster: Hottop programmable

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgnomer
    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    It is interesting how being off on one variable a little bit can make a noticable change in flavor, etc. Some days I'll make manual drip or french press that is absolutely incredible and the best cup of coffee I have ever had, then I'll make a cup the next day using the same fresh beans with a so-so result.

    I am using a blade grinder but ordered a burr grinder.
    A burr grinder will make a difference you'll probably notice if it grinds evenly

    Yes, from day to day the same beans can taste different. I've had beans freshly roasted, specifically an Ethiopian Harrar roast, and the first brew was incredible. I opened the jar the roast was in too many times between brews and the next brew was terrible. That was a while ago when I liked to smell the fresh roast so I figure the beans somehow got oxidized and when stale fast. I don't do that anymore, in fact I leave the beans to degass with the lids on tight and only open the jars when I'm ready to blend and/or brew.
    Ethiopian Harrar is one of my favorites. We were down in Old City Philadelphia over the weekend and Old City coffee roasts a dynamite Ethiopian brew.

    Anyway, I know what you mean.......but sometimes that bad brew will be good the next day as if it was another variable that caused the problem.

    Some roasters say to leave the beans in the bag it came in and re-seal and place in a tupperware container. I personally pour half the bag in my counter glass coffee jar and leave the rest in the bag in a tupperware type bin.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    Ethiopian Harrar is one of my favorites. We were down in Old City Philadelphia over the weekend and Old City coffee roasts a dynamite Ethiopian brew.

    Anyway, I know what you mean.......but sometimes that bad brew will be good the next day as if it was another variable that caused the problem.

    Some roasters say to leave the beans in the bag it came in and re-seal and place in a tupperware container. I personally pour half the bag in my counter glass coffee jar and leave the rest in the bag in a tupperware type bin.
    I've read that beans oxidize very quickly when exposed to even a minute amount of air. Many are of the opinion that there is no way to keep beans as fresh as they were when roasted. While beans are degassing they're protected from oxidation but once the degassing process finishes, that's it. Limiting the amount of air the beans are exposed to might slow staling and lots of people have tried freezing and say it works great. Still, it's said that roasted coffee is like fresh baked bread: there's no way to keep either fresh for very long.

    I degass my beans in mason jars with the lids tightly closed and open them up after about 3 days just before grinding. They're big mason jars so there's lots of headspace but I think the co2 that gets released displaces the air and keeps the beans from oxidizing faster than if they were out in the open. I know from experience that opening and closing the container too much stales the beans pretty fast.
    Grinder: Macap M4 stepless, Zassenhaus kneemill
    Machine: Quickmill Vetrano, Olympia Cremina '67
    Brewers: Yama 5cup, ibrik, Bodum e Santos, french press, pour over drip
    Roaster: Hottop programmable

  6. #26
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    I just bought a grinder with a large basin for holding the beans and it is air tight so this will solve my problem of opening and closing the bag at each grind. I can keep 1/2 lb in the basin for grinding.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    I just bought a grinder with a large basin for holding the beans and it is air tight so this will solve my problem of opening and closing the bag at each grind. I can keep 1/2 lb in the basin for grinding.
    That would be interesting to see how it works.

    I've got a dosing grinder and grind mostly for espresso, following the grind for dose advice. After grinding I sweep everything out from the chute to the doser. Every so often I clean out the hopper and so far I've only taken the grinder apart once to clean it right down to the burrs.

    Grinding a bit of white rice now and again is a good way to keep the burrs clean. If you're using fresh roasted beans it makes sense to keep the grinder as clean and uncontaminated as possible.
    Grinder: Macap M4 stepless, Zassenhaus kneemill
    Machine: Quickmill Vetrano, Olympia Cremina '67
    Brewers: Yama 5cup, ibrik, Bodum e Santos, french press, pour over drip
    Roaster: Hottop programmable

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgnomer
    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    I just bought a grinder with a large basin for holding the beans and it is air tight so this will solve my problem of opening and closing the bag at each grind. I can keep 1/2 lb in the basin for grinding.
    That would be interesting to see how it works.

    I've got a dosing grinder and grind mostly for espresso, following the grind for dose advice. After grinding I sweep everything out from the chute to the doser. Every so often I clean out the hopper and so far I've only taken the grinder apart once to clean it right down to the burrs.

    Grinding a bit of white rice now and again is a good way to keep the burrs clean. If you're using fresh roasted beans it makes sense to keep the grinder as clean and uncontaminated as possible.

    Yes, I just fill the top basin (what is this called?) with about 1/2 lb of fresh beans and select the amount I want to grind along with the grind (fine to course). It is weird though because the 4 cup setting only grinds about 4 tablespoons worth.

    Is the hopper the container that receives the grinds? Is that the doser? Anyway....the part that holds the beans - I can't figure out how to take this off to clean and to get to the burrs.

    When the beans are empty I'll try again to clean the hopper?

    So, white rice is a good cleaning method? I want to keep up with cleaning because I do not want to contaminate that fresh bean taste!

    -Rich

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by richedie
    Is the hopper the container that receives the grinds? Is that the doser? Anyway....the part that holds the beans - I can't figure out how to take this off to clean and to get to the burrs.

    When the beans are empty I'll try again to clean the hopper?

    So, white rice is a good cleaning method? I want to keep up with cleaning because I do not want to contaminate that fresh bean taste!

    -Rich
    It depends on what kind of grinder you've got. The commercial grade espresso grinders mostly have large, flat burrs driven by a commercial quality motor and are designed not only to grind fine and precisely but also not heat up the grinds or statically charge them. That kind of quality costs more but it's worth it when excellent espresso is your goal.

    The top that holds the bins is called the hopper. Grinders can be either doserless or doser. Doserless grinders are good if you're going to use your grinder for more than just espresso. The grinds exit doserless grinders down a chute under which you can place anything from a coffee filter basket to a portafilter.

    With a doser grinder the grinds empty into a compartment that has a propeller type wheel thingy that divides the grinds into 'doses' as you spin the vanes of the propeller thingy by pulling a lever. The grinds are diverted to an exit by the action of the rotating vanes to empty into a portafilter basket you place there. I like it for espresso since the vanes break up the grind a bit and the dose falls into the basket pretty good.

    It sounds like you've got a burr grinder but not one designed more specifically for espresso. White rice is a trick to keep the burrs clean without having to take the grinder apart. There's also a product, I beleive its called something like Grindz, that's designed to clean the burrs when it's ground as well.

    Commercial grade espresso grinders are pretty easy take apart to get to the burrs since replacing burrs when they dull is part of the grinder's regular maintenence. I don't think that home burr grinders designed more for drip coffee grinding expect owners would want to replace dull burrs so burrs on those grinders might not be accessible.

    It's not a bad idea to clean the hopper after a while since the bean's oils sticking to the walls might go rancid given time. Some guys vacuum out their hoppers and other's use click clack lids or air tight lids that force air through the burrs when you push them down to blow grinds out of the burrs and chute. The hoppers on the higher end espresso grinders are round with fairly large diameters.

    Keeping things clean is a good idea. I'm a neat freak too but with espresso I think it's a virtue to be a bit obsessive about cleanliness.
    Grinder: Macap M4 stepless, Zassenhaus kneemill
    Machine: Quickmill Vetrano, Olympia Cremina '67
    Brewers: Yama 5cup, ibrik, Bodum e Santos, french press, pour over drip
    Roaster: Hottop programmable

  10. #30
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    Found it, thanks!

    http://www.urnex.com/grindz.htm

    Why would a company thinkg a home user would not want to clean the burrs? If I don't clean them.....I assume they'll become dull with usage.

    After I am doen this round of beans.....I'll see what it takes to clean.

 

 
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