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  1. #1
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    Arent fully automatic machines a waste?

    I have a fully auto espresso machine. When you make a long coffee or normal coffee by brewing the espresso and allowing it to filter more water through ends up, supposedly in a bitter taste and is a big no no. I have learned that this is NOT the way to make Café Americano and that you should stop after the espresso is brewed and then just add hot water (not through the beans).

    My machine offers 3 different types of brewing volumes. Shouldn’t I always just stick with a true espresso shot no matter what I do?? Doesn’t this defeat the purpose of the fully automatic? Do most of you out here BYPASS that feature and just brew espressos? By having to use this method, I basically lose some of the one touch advantages of a fully automatic machine.. Your thoughts are most welcomed!

  2. #2
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    I think it is due to the configuration of the manufacturer. I saw there are some machine can produce the cafe America just with one touch.

  3. #3
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    Mine does it with one touch also, but they continue to just put the pressurized water through the bean. are you saying that some stop the extraction and then add fresh hot water (ie not going through bean)? I have not seen that... Am i rightt to assume that i should just stop at espresso size and use normal hot water after? anyone find a way to tweak the automatics?

  4. #4
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    americanos on fully automatis machines

    I believe that a fully automatic machine has to be treated differently than a traditional type machine in calibration etc and merits its own set of fundamental rules.
    If you have the use of two grinders i would devote one to americano,make the grind much courser and increase the gramme throw thus decreasing your extraction time keeping the bitterness out of your americano.I find this works very well up to 10 fl oz cup anything bigger than that you need to introduce a bypass.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by neillebo
    Mine does it with one touch also, but they continue to just put the pressurized water through the bean. are you saying that some stop the extraction and then add fresh hot water (ie not going through bean)? I have not seen that... Am i rightt to assume that i should just stop at espresso size and use normal hot water after? anyone find a way to tweak the automatics?
    Making your espresso then adding hot water will give you a far better Americano from the auto. I muist admit that it baffles me why the manufacturers cannot invest that few dollars more to make the machine actually add hot water that bypasses the coffee puck after the shot has finished. It would not be difficult to have an extra tube and valve in place for that to happen. It's basically just laziness and complacency because they believe the consumer does not know any better. Effectively $3600 superautos I have reviewed simply keep passing the hot water through the coffee. In switzerland they even invented a name for the horrible brew (cafe crema).

    I suppose even worse is that qite a few superautos that use a thermoblock heating system for brew water (and most of them under $4000 do), can't actually achieve a high enough temperature to prevent the shot from being sour. I reviewed one machine and the 1st 1-2oz of water through the coffee was lukewarm, you could hold your hand under it. A double could be instantly drunk, it was that cool. The espresso was mouth wrinklingly sour!

  6. #6
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    Davec its like everything else, that extra tube requires someone to make a modification to the blueprints of the machine. Then to the manufacturing process. Don't forget the added cost of tubes, valves, and any circuitry required to make it work. Then you have the proof on concept and all of the redesigns. Eventually a million dollars later you have a simple bypass that should only tack on a few dollars to the overall cost of the machine.

    So what am I trying to get at. Look at the auto industry. For countless years they have been slow to adopt technology that could help save lives. Electronic Stability Control, Tire Pressure Monitoring System, and Back-Up Sensors to name a few. I have read that Back-Up Sensor system would cost about $200 to add to a new vehicle.

    It just all comes down to it will add an additional cost that the consumer doesn't want to pay attitude.
    Have you ever walked through the aisle of your local grocer and smelled the death of a dying bean?

  7. #7
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    Devote one grinder to americano(provided u have a 2 grinder machine) in crease the dose and make texture of the grind quiet coarse.The larger dose and coarser grind will allow a longer extraction time while keeping the bitterness out of the coffee up to about a 10 fl oz cup.Anything bigger and u need bypass.

  8. #8
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    I am really talking about redesigns when they launch a new machine, not modifying the tooling on existing machines. At the outset of design it would be simple enough to do. Having reviewed a few new superautos to the market, it is definitely just a "cannot be bothered attitude" and also penny pinching.

    I once reviewed a machine where the water tank had no bar to remove it, making it incredibly difficult to get the tank out, and impossible if it was more than half full of water. The manufacturers response "it would cost 2 or 3 euros to fit a lifting bar bar to the water tank tank"....yes thats all it would have cost and they were not prepared to do it. Thankfully that particular manufacturer has seen their market share in the domestic prosumer machine slip away to a fraction of what it was 6 or 7 years ago.

    It would be helpful if manufacturers actually involved the eviewers/expert consumers at prototype stage, rather than build the machine and get the negative comments....then become defensive (which is what I get a lot of the time). Even after the manufacturers get bitten by a problem identified at review stage and ignored by them, still never acknowledge that they were warned!

    In a month or so, a manufacturer is actually sending me a prototype espresso machine, before actually tooling up for full production, simply because they realise that any negative comment during a review of the prototype is easily fixed. this is however, a rarity among manufacturers.

    So I am afraid I don't share your "charitable view towards the manufacturers problems"

  9. #9
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    My point to this topic, it is easy to do (have hot water bypassing the coffee cake in piston), but it will costup the machine, because it need powerful bolier and some other relative update. Now in auto coffee maker industry, there are lots of machine have two boilers, they can provide continuesly hot water with small temperature lost.

  10. #10
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    and autos. What does increase pressure option do (ie SBS)

    thanks, all. However, in my case, i do have a fully auto, so no option for two grinders.. Am i stuck with bitter coffee or just americano. doesnt seem i can use the fine grind of espresso for both??? also, my saeco has a ring called SBS (Saeco Brewing system-i'll post this elsewhere also) that increases or decreases the pressure. they allow you to control the amt of coffee and amt of water, but grind is done manually. .is this pressure a way of making up for the grind? how does one use that, as I am stumped...

 

 

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