Super Automatic or Manual for a 250 shot bar

[Davec]

Hey Ccafe....you managed to quote my entire post

Tell you what, just to make you feel better...I take it all back, superautomatic machines are brilliant and Sparky should rush out and get one. OK you feel good now.

[CCafe]

Nope, I just want you to put your money where your mouth is!

[ElPugDiablo]

I don't use superautomatic and probably will not consider it for reasons other than espresso quality. Some of the reasons are already stated by other super naysayers. However, the espresso quality of superautomatics can be very good. If we are to believe David Schomer, outside the hands of a well trained barista, espresso shots are best made by a superautomatic machine. The caveat being just like traditional machines, superautomatics need regular adjustment. If someone uses a supermatic and expects a set it once and forget it machine as I suspect most people who use supermatic are doing, he or she will not have the best espresso the machine is capable of producing. It really does not matter if the machine is lever, semi, auto or super auto, if you have dedicated people working the machine, you will have pretty darn good espresso, if you don't, then you will get undrinkable swill on your super duper La Marzocco/Synesso/Mirage Versalab M3 set up. I agree with CCafe, the technology is there for those with less skill who are nevertheless dedicated to offer the best shot possible. It's less romantic for the barista, but the truth is most customer don't care about barista's infatuation, they care about getting a good tasting beverage. One day, I would think the technology will produce machine that can surpass even me, but not today. Now I have to go hug and kiss my Linea, my pouting temperamental Italian temptress.

[ElPugDiablo]

As a design agency we are currently designing a new Espresso Bar with a projected vistor count of 250 a day....We have been convinced that 2 manual machines will provide the quality of product and atmosphere we are aiming for.

I would think a single 3 group machine can handle 250 drinks a day.

[Davec]

Nope, I just want you to put your money where your mouth is!

As far as I am concerned you can keep waiting!

[caffe biscotto]

I thought for sure he had a beard...

[CCafe]

Annoying maybe, but I'm tired of people posting opinions on here made to look like facts. The people who come here asking for assistance we'll listen to just about anyone and if your spewing crap you can't backup then it makes us all look bad.

For the most part I can't stand it when someone knocks something up one side and down the other and has limited to no knowledge of what they are knocking. I'm not saying a super auto should be a replacement for your average barista. But I'm not going to sit here and tell someone that they don't produce quality espresso. Because if that was the case most Italian companies wouldn't bother producing a machine that makes substandard anything.

Most of the Italians I know that do produce Super automatic equipment hold their machines in the same regard as the traditional equipment they produce. Even more so for the super since it does take a lot out of the hands of the barista. They want to make sure that their machine only produces the finest quality drinks possible!

So if you have a problem take it up with the people who invented your drink you so covet.

[Davec]

I'm tired of people posting opinions on here made to look like facts. The people who come here asking for assistance we'll listen to just about anyone and if your spewing crap you can't backup then it makes us all look bad..

First, your a moderator on here, so you should learn to live with that....it's simply your opinion vs another persons. That doesn't mean they are "spewing crap". In fact that's a rather odd point of view to hold?

You state your belief another person states theirs...your stated views might make some people reluctant to post their ideas and thoughts, especially if they think they will upset the administrators of this forum..I will now be far less likely to contribute to this forum in the future (so that should make you happy).

Second, your making unfounded assumptions about my knowledge and I don't feel the need to prove anything to you. The poster can read the posts and make up their own mind. If he chooses your option as the best solution, then great he has been helped....although I note you have not recommended a specific class or cost of superauto to him and not suggested a few models you feel capable of meeting his requirements (read his post very carefully and think about what he is asking and why)!


Some of your posts in the past have had questionable information, but I have never felt the need to respond as you do and certainly have never accused you of talking crap, or similar unpleasant comments. Now if you have a personal problem with me specifically, then ban me if that will make you feel better, but don't sit their looking for opportunities to attack me personally.

The only one making us all look bad....is you!

[CCafe]

You can feel the way you want to feel. Just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean I can't get upset once in while.

Since you don't feel like proving anything I'll just make my own assumption about what ever you write on the forum from here on out.

If this means its time for me to step down as a moderator then so be it.

[Crazy4Coffee]

Davec,
CCafe has asked you a simple question:

When you talk about super auto the way you do what machines do you base your experience on?

Because I'm seeing a lot of super auto technology being integrated in to traditional equipment. I want to see if you can back up what you said when compared to the Super Auto your knocking! As in what machine are you basing your experiance from. Schaerer, Cimbali, Nuova Simonelli, Jura, Rancilio, Frankee, and the list goes on. Which company and what model and when was the last time you used it?

Just answer his question.