jmcqueen
New member
i've been reading and seeing head-to-head comparisons between Joper and Probat drum roasters. does anyone have some insight on these two roasters specifically? i'm looking at the 5kg Joper on coffeetec.
Probat vs. Joper
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John P
Active member
Really. There's even a question?
However, I would look at a San Franciscan, US Roasters, or a Diedrich before a Joper.
However, I would look at a San Franciscan, US Roasters, or a Diedrich before a Joper.
jmcqueen
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- #3
jay at coffeetec seems to give the Joper an edge over the Probat based on the information on his site. i was wondering if anyone has roasted on both. i have looked and the SanFran and USR too. SanFran pricing is expensive, but looks like a great roaster and bill sent me pricing information straightaway. i'm more interested in the USR (based on price and being here in the USA), but it seems they only offer a steel drum. not really a diedrich fan at this point due to IR temp control reported as not being as responsive as gas when roasting on a profile. so, it looks like if i want a good/great cast iron roaster, in the better quality i have to seriously consider the Joper or Probat.
peterjschmidt
Active member
What do you have against plain ol' mild steel for the drum? I haven't used a cast iron drum roaster, but I'll call BS if somebody says cast iron imparts the heat to the beans differently in a way that is discernible in the cup.
As to responsiveness... I use a propane roaster w/ direct flames, but the truth is that either way, there is some planning ahead on where you want to be in a roast profile, and if you know where you want to be and when and you know your roaster, you can do it just as easily with direct flame or IR.
As to responsiveness... I use a propane roaster w/ direct flames, but the truth is that either way, there is some planning ahead on where you want to be in a roast profile, and if you know where you want to be and when and you know your roaster, you can do it just as easily with direct flame or IR.
jmcqueen
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- #5
nothing against plain ol' mild steel. in fact, i am roasting in a stainless drum right now on a weber grill and getting good results (good results, not great). at about day 3, the coffee flavor really comes up nicely on just about everything i've been roasting. maybe i am believing some of the "BS" regarding cast iron, and i hear 'ya on the IR. if i get one, i just want to make sure i don't have regrets down the road b/c i missed something up front.
expat
New member
I've been told by a couple of roasters who now roast on cast iron and roasted on steel in the past that the steel can get hot spots and cause tipping whereas the cast iron is a much more uniform heat throughout the drum. Whether that's the case or selective memory on their part I don't know but worth looking into.
peterjschmidt
Active member
I still can't buy into the 'cast iron is better' thing. The way the beans are constantly tumbling, they're in the air most of the time and not against the drum, and moving to the front and then the back. Even if there were hot spots, I doubt any beans would be in contact with those hot spots long enough to matter.
From what I've read about hot spots, the biggest difference is not between cast or mild steel, but between stainless steel and other types; stainless doesn't conduct heat as well, so there will be a ring of hotter steel rotating above each jet of the burners, and cooler steel between the jets. Would be less of an issue with an IR roaster like a Diedrich, but I still say proper agitation would mitigate that too.
Mind you, all I have to go on is common sense and am no expert on roaster construction, nor do I play one on TV.
From what I've read about hot spots, the biggest difference is not between cast or mild steel, but between stainless steel and other types; stainless doesn't conduct heat as well, so there will be a ring of hotter steel rotating above each jet of the burners, and cooler steel between the jets. Would be less of an issue with an IR roaster like a Diedrich, but I still say proper agitation would mitigate that too.
Mind you, all I have to go on is common sense and am no expert on roaster construction, nor do I play one on TV.
jmcqueen
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- #8
from a manufacturing standpoint, i believe that stainless drums would be loads easier to manufacture than cast drums. so, then why do those manufacturers producing roasters with cast drums even go through the hassle and expense, when it would be much easier to cut a flat sheet of 6 gauge stainless, roll-form it into a cylinder, and tig weld it together? aside from the non-stick issue which develops over time with cast iton (carbonized food deposits), i would still prefer to cook food in cast iron vs stainless just for the evenness of heat.
peterjschmidt
Active member
From a manufacturing standpoint, I believe that mild steel would be loads easier to manufacture than a stainless drum. So then why do they use stainless in some roasters? It's a matter of the customer's perception; if people buy them, they'll make them, and then tout their perceived (read phony) advantages as marketing ploys.
Cooking over a burner in a flat skillet would be a whole different ball game than a rotating drum with vanes designed to agitate.
Cooking over a burner in a flat skillet would be a whole different ball game than a rotating drum with vanes designed to agitate.
jmcqueen
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- #10
points taken. gives me a lot to think about. really, thank you peter. here is what jay wrote on coffeetec, related to cast iron and Probat 12 kg vs. Joper 15 kg:
"Roasting technology is actually returning to the most friendly contact material considering expansion stability, bean friendliness and a warm moist heat that is gentle against the raw coffee . . . Cast Iron. There are other very good roasters out there - but Cast is different and probably desirable. Both of these roasters are the same in function and while I have been a part of the Probat family for years . . . the Joper is catching my attention as it is doing some nice things that may make it a Best Buy choice. While Probat needs to be congratulated for returning to their cast iron roots, the Joper Foundry has simply created a little thicker and more technically friendly configuration on bearing and gear drive motor mounting that allows it to run cooler and more quiet. They look alike and take up the same footprint and finally the Probat has put it's chaff collection outside too (long needed) . . . both have adopted the double-wall-drum method to allow an air space between the bean contact and the flame contact - this is fantastic on both machines and long, long overdue. Joper has a low-nox burner with more range in control. Also Joper has a timer in the dashboard - nice addition. While you can't lose with either . . . I am well pleased and you will be too, with the Joper and when I really saw them side by side . . . I am giving Joper a slight edge over the Probat. Remember too, the Joper's drum size allows more production over the hour."
i found the above quite interesting, as jay gives the nod to Joper. bottom line, i understand that the best roasted beans come from a roast person/master who understands his/her equipment well, and with great intentionality, brings out the maximum flavor of the beans. i've seen it so many times written here and elsewhere... the most important component affecting a quality roast is on the human side of the equation, not the brand of the roaster.
sidebar: as i type this, i am enjoying a very delicious cup of guat drip brew from a roast 4 days ago, of which i thought i botched (pulled too early after 1C). by the time i could get back to tossing the beans back and forth to get them cooled down enough to stop the roast, and after burning my right thumb twice just trying to get the beans dumped out of my dog-gone roaster, they actually entered 2C. after they cooled and sat for 4 days, i have a little bit of heaven to enjoy. best roast yet on my low-tech weber set-up! now, if i could just repeat it. hah!
"Roasting technology is actually returning to the most friendly contact material considering expansion stability, bean friendliness and a warm moist heat that is gentle against the raw coffee . . . Cast Iron. There are other very good roasters out there - but Cast is different and probably desirable. Both of these roasters are the same in function and while I have been a part of the Probat family for years . . . the Joper is catching my attention as it is doing some nice things that may make it a Best Buy choice. While Probat needs to be congratulated for returning to their cast iron roots, the Joper Foundry has simply created a little thicker and more technically friendly configuration on bearing and gear drive motor mounting that allows it to run cooler and more quiet. They look alike and take up the same footprint and finally the Probat has put it's chaff collection outside too (long needed) . . . both have adopted the double-wall-drum method to allow an air space between the bean contact and the flame contact - this is fantastic on both machines and long, long overdue. Joper has a low-nox burner with more range in control. Also Joper has a timer in the dashboard - nice addition. While you can't lose with either . . . I am well pleased and you will be too, with the Joper and when I really saw them side by side . . . I am giving Joper a slight edge over the Probat. Remember too, the Joper's drum size allows more production over the hour."
i found the above quite interesting, as jay gives the nod to Joper. bottom line, i understand that the best roasted beans come from a roast person/master who understands his/her equipment well, and with great intentionality, brings out the maximum flavor of the beans. i've seen it so many times written here and elsewhere... the most important component affecting a quality roast is on the human side of the equation, not the brand of the roaster.
sidebar: as i type this, i am enjoying a very delicious cup of guat drip brew from a roast 4 days ago, of which i thought i botched (pulled too early after 1C). by the time i could get back to tossing the beans back and forth to get them cooled down enough to stop the roast, and after burning my right thumb twice just trying to get the beans dumped out of my dog-gone roaster, they actually entered 2C. after they cooled and sat for 4 days, i have a little bit of heaven to enjoy. best roast yet on my low-tech weber set-up! now, if i could just repeat it. hah!
expat
New member
If you've decided to go down the cast iron road you've also got Giesen, Ozturk, Topher (I think), and old Gothot if you can find one, Roure, and a few others.
jmcqueen
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- #12
thanks, expat, for the other brand names. i have been devouring much info these past weeks. i realize that i am just starting my purchasing journey which might not end for another 6 months or so. that said, probably what will happen is that a great deal will come along at some point and i'll jump on it! i am tempted, price-wise, to seriously consider purchasing a new ozturk as a 1st roaster. then, build a following, and depending upon the results, step up to a 12 kg cast drum setup. sure would be nice if someone had a nice used cast roaster for sale at a killer price.
peterjschmidt
Active member
And find some opinions on cast drums from someone who's used both, and not someone who's selling one or the other. I can't help in that regard. But I still can't see how the beans would care.
John P
Active member
When the roaster as a whole is designed around said metal, there really isn't any difference.
Which Coffee Roaster Drum Material is Best?
Which Coffee Roaster Drum Material is Best?
