WTB: 3-5kg San Franciscan, Diedrich, Joper, Roure, or Probat

[poison]

Or Geisen. I apprenticed on a Diedrich IR 12, and I'm kinda set on the options in the title, but if you have something else, persuade me.

 

[eldub]

What about a 5kg from US Roaster Corps? I've really been impressed with the 12 kg model we recently purchased. Customer service has been great. After a day of training at their facility in OK City I've been able to get very consistent roasts starting with my initial efforts of 5 lb. roasts on this machine capable of doing as much as 30 lbs. at a time. The beans cool within a couple of minutes of coming out of the roaster no matter the size of batch.

A friend who apprenticed on an older probat warned me that i'd probably be burning beans at first has a tough time believing that this hasn't been the case on this new roaster.

Btw, not sure what went down last week, but US Roasters machine had won the blind taste test at the Roaster's Guild four years running. (And I'm pretty sure most of the brands you mentioned above were competing in that contest.)

 

[poison]

Honestly, I've heard some bad things about quality with usrc. I have heard they won the blind taste test at the roasters retreat. I would love to read an article about that, if anyone has a link?

 

[topher]

To be honest it comes down to what you are most comfortable using. I have used all of the above and then some. I have recently used a victory roaster put out by roasters authority. Nice machine loads of control! I have in place at my shop a 60 kilo Ambex that hands down is my favorite roaster to date. I have used it for about 9 years now with one rebuild. Probat can be a pain maintenance wise and expensive for replacement parts. San Frans are beautiful...but they used to be expensive(haven't priced them in a while.) I had a friend who owned one. He would roast a batch and drop the coffee in the cooling bin then manually turned the cooling arms(not motorized) and with 3 or four turns the beans would be cool Thats just amazing to me! The people who own Diedrichs swear by them. I apprenticed on one about 20 years ago and got to play on one about a year ago..and just didn't really like using it. Dan over at USRC is a great. Really knows his stuff. Like I said it basically comes down to preference. I mean shit I used an antique royal that was built in 1896 that turned out great coffee! Find what you like and can afford and taste everything you roast. Good luck!

 

[eldub]

Funny how that works..... I've heard a lot of negative comments on the quality of Diedrich roasters.

lw

 

[poison]

eldub, I'm starting to see that as well, however...something else I'm looking at is 'who's using roaster x': some of the best roasters, like Ecco, Paradise, Metropolis (iirc), and so on are using Diedrich. They have a tendency to stall easily, but seeing as I apprenticed on one, and their potential for great coffee is a known quantity, it's sort of my default roaster setting, if you will.

I asked USRC who uses theirs, and though they did name names, it was no one I've heard of. Add in that I've talked to a few roasters who had bad experiences with them, and I'm leery. But like I said, if someone has one available, I'd consider it.

topher, great feedback. I've spoken to roasters who have used many different machines, and again, were not happy with Ambex. Some of that may be because the flavor profiles Ambex tends toward don't suit their palate, but it sure seems like a lot of roasters start with Ambex, and quickly upgrade to diedrich/probat. Again, I want to hear 'Counter Culture is using Ambex' (for example), and so far haven't heard of one major micro-roaster I respect toward using one. Again, you love and use one, so any feedback you can give is great! Tell me more!

 

[coffeejoes]

I started with a ambex 2 and quickly went to a ambex 10. Machines work fine except in my case both were prone to fires. Both were very hard machines to keep clean. I currently use a diedrich ir3 and ir12. Love both, no fires, and very easy to keep the machines clean. My money is riding with diedrich.

 

[poison]

I started with a ambex 2 and quickly went to a ambex 10. Machines work fine except in my case both were prone to fires. Both were very hard machines to keep clean. I currently use a diedrich ir3 and ir12. Love both, no fires, and very easy to keep the machines clean. My money is riding with diedrich.

Thanks for jumping in. I've noticed you sell used roasters, correct? Got anything on hand?

I missed out on an Ebay IR3 that was local, clean, and sold for $8k. Stupid me. I'd consider an IR2.5; call me silly, but that extra half kilo bugs me. I mean many orders are in 5lb increments; the IR2.5 will turn out 4.5lbs per batch. LOL!

 

[eldub]

Every Kg = 2.2 lbs. So a 2.5 kg machine is rated for 5.5 lbs. (2.2x2.5). However, you'd still have to run about 6 lbs of beans through that machine to end up with 5 lbs after taking moisture loss into consideration. My guess is that the 2.5 kg machine could handle a 2.75 kg load, allowing for 5 lb of beans in the end.

 

[poison]

Well, I don't know about neer diedrichs, but older ones couldn't handle their rated capacity well, and loading that extra half lb would've killed any attempts to profile. New ones may be ok.

 

[eldub]

Our 12 kg USRC can handle 13.5 kg with ease, so I figured the diedrichs would do about the same.

You might want to consider a bit larger roaster. Imo, its better to have something to grow into rather than out of.

lw

 

[poison]

Our 12 kg USRC can handle 13.5 kg with ease, so I figured the diedrichs would do about the same.

Ha, no way. It's partially the IR burners, and they were just under-powered. The IR 12 I apprenticed on was best at 2/3-3/4 capacity, and every other Diedrich user I've talked to has said the same. I have see mention that Diedrich claims to have beefed up the BTU's or something on the newer ones, and when I asked straight out recently, the sales woman swore up and down they could roast at full capacity.

You might want to consider a bit larger roaster. Imo, its better to have something to grow into rather than out of.

lw

Well, 2 things.

LA County has the strictest air quality requirements in the country. Anything over 10lbs per batch requires an afterburner. This is something to avoid in the beginning, as that can cost as much or more than a 3-5kg roaster.

So part of me says buy the largest I can without the afterburner requirement. But on the other hand, having a 2.5-3kg roaster to start, and keeping it when I outgrow it and upgrade, seems smart. That way, for smaller batches, I don't need to fire up a 15kg monster.

 

[topher]

The last place I was roasting at I had 4 roasters. I had the 60 I am using now, a 120 kilo Toper , 10 kilo toper and a 2.5 kilo Toper. When we were in full swing we were around 100,000 lbs a month. The sixty k's coffee was consistent and maintenance was easy. If a motor broke we could call Grainger for a replacement. If a motor blew on the Toper we were sunk. It would take ions for Toper to ship a motor from Turkey. One time a replacement part got held up in customs..sigh. To coffeejoes, the older ambex roasters and mostly the small ones had built in chaff collectors which I call "fire boxes" and yes that design sucked. Like I said in my previous post...find what you like and feel that puts the best coffee out. I've seen some great coffee come out of each manufacture...the person using the machine plays a huge factor as well. Let us know what you went with...or if you get a chance to play on any of the ones you are considering. Where are yo located?

 

[poison]

Yeah, I'm not even considering the Toper/Ozturk/whatever roasters. Even Probat could be a hassle for repair/replacement parts. Giesen could too, but supposedly Boot has (or has arranged) for the most common replacement parts to be stockpiled up in the Bay Area.

100k lbs a month? Yikes! That's awesome.

I'm in LA. Bodhi Leaf trading has a San Franciscan 6lber, so I'll be stopping by to see that. Bird Rock in San Diego has a Giesen, but there's no way I'll find a used one, so I may not bother. I don't know of any local roaster on an Ambex.

 

[expat]

I know you said you're not considering Turkish roasters but don't write them off . . .

I use an Ozturk 10kg. Price-to-size ratio was the driving factor for me. I've had good success with it, in fact great success.

I did have a minor oil leak in the gearbox that drives the arm on my cooling tray. I took the motor/gearbox assembly off (4 bolts and a cir-clip) and upon separating gearbox from motor saw that the gearbox seal was the problem. I went down the street to my local farm supply store and 5 euro later I was back in business. Very easy repair. Common parts. That's a nice thing, no waiting around for specialty parts. Being in the west of Ireland, where even the simplest things can be hard to come by, common parts were very important to me when I did my research.

So the Ozturk is like a Ford or Chevy. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles. It doesn't have the cachet of a Probat. But it starts and drives pretty good. And if something goes wrong (and it will on any machine) getting a part will be easy and won't break the bank.

Ozturk, I don't think, is well known in the U.S. but worth a look. I think Adirondak Roasters is the U.S. distributor. It would be worth a call to get some references.

And whatever roaster you choose I agree with Topher (as I always do) it is the Roast Master (or Lovely & Talented Roast Mistress in our case) more than the machine that makes the most difference.