opening a coffee shop

[EFK]

how is it going guys? im new here and i thought this will be a good place to start my search for the answer to my questions. i saw a post on google from this site which was posted by a guy wanting to open a coffee shop in nyc and he did a tally of all that he needs and it came to a total of 100k. i also live in nyc and i would like to open a coffee shop somewhere in my area. i would like to know what my expenses will be and where can i get the machinery and such. i would like to open an italian coffee shop with all the different types of imported italian coffee beans. maybe make coffee ice cream to sell in the store as well and/or some cakes or something but thats later. i would like to know if there are sites that are recommended for me to visit to in order to see my product and my machinery. also would like to know if anyone in the nyc area did open a coffee shop and if they did please give me some advice. also i would like to visit your shop to see around and get some ideas if thats possible. thanks in advance - EFK

 

[eldub]

Your best on line site: Google.

Best italian coffee beans definitely come from Bologna and Trieste. (Skip the coffee beans grown in Rome. Too much air pollution there. Bean flavor is affected.)

As far as what your expenses will be...... Not sure what a clue is going for in NYC at the moment. My guess is that it will take all of that and then some. (As much as you are willing to throw at it.)

Good luck.

lw

 

[EFK]

Ty for your input. How bout the machinery? Is there special Italian machinery or something along those lines? Or are all machinery the same? Should I rent or buy the machinery and regarding workers do they need special training or is it just button smashing on the machines and theres your coffee type of thing?

 

[eldub]

EFK: Please disregard my post above. I was making a joke in reply to what I thought was a bit of joking about on your part. Obviously I was wrong. To be honest, it sounds like you are getting in over your head on this coffee venture. And you are talking about throwing a lot of money toward something in which you have little practical knowledge.

If you do continue down this path, I would recommend that you bring someone on board right away who has intimate knowledge of the industry. You will need someone to run your shop, so hiring a top-notch barista immediately would probably go a long way toward getting you on track.

As for equipment, there are many places on-line selling gear for coffee shops at far better prices than you could probably find locally, but a person in your position might be better off doing business with a reputable equipment vendor right in NYC. While it will cost you more to get started, you will probably get better service and advice from a local company.

We are in the process of opening an organic coffee roasting business here in the midwest. I have been studying the industry this last few months for many hours a day seven days a week. You could say I've been obsessed with the topic, but I'm not sure there would have been any other way to get up to speed. (We originally had a business partner lined up with many years in the coffee bean roasting/coffee house industry.) However, when that arrangement fell through, we decided to keep moving forward with the venture.

There are many books you can read and a ton of on-line resources available to help you learn the business. I've learned a lot right here on the coffee forums.

If you do decide to move forward, here's a partial list of some equipment you might need:

Espresso machine
Drip coffee maker
Coffee Urns
Grinders
Ice maker
Refrigerator
Work tables
Coffee bar counter
Three hole sink
Employee hand sink
Mop basin
Water treatment system
Tables
Chairs
Small ware
Cash register
Decorations
Signage
Grease interceptor
Sprinkler system
Permits
Insurance
Employees
Coffee bean supplier

If you would like suggestions on books or on-line resources, feel free to pm me with further questions.

lw

 

[EFK]

EFK: Please disregard my post above. I was making a joke in reply to what I thought was a bit of joking about on your part. Obviously I was wrong. To be honest, it sounds like you are getting in over your head on this coffee venture. And you are talking about throwing a lot of money toward something in which you have little practical knowledge.

If you do continue down this path, I would recommend that you bring someone on board right away who has intimate knowledge of the industry. You will need someone to run your shop, so hiring a top-notch barista immediately would probably go a long way toward getting you on track.

As for equipment, there are many places on-line selling gear for coffee shops at far better prices than you could probably find locally, but a person in your position might be better off doing business with a reputable equipment vendor right in NYC. While it will cost you more to get started, you will probably get better service and advice from a local company.

We are in the process of opening an organic coffee roasting business here in the midwest. I have been studying the industry this last few months for many hours a day seven days a week. You could say I've been obsessed with the topic, but I'm not sure there would have been any other way to get up to speed. (We originally had a business partner lined up with many years in the coffee bean roasting/coffee house industry.) However, when that arrangement fell through, we decided to keep moving forward with the venture.

There are many books you can read and a ton of on-line resources available to help you learn the business. I've learned a lot right here on the coffee forums.

If you do decide to move forward, here's a partial list of some equipment you might need:

Espresso machine
Drip coffee maker
Coffee Urns
Grinders
Ice maker
Refrigerator
Work tables
Coffee bar counter
Three hole sink
Employee hand sink
Mop basin
Water treatment system
Tables
Chairs
Small ware
Cash register
Decorations
Signage
Grease interceptor
Sprinkler system
Permits
Insurance
Employees
Coffee bean supplier

If you would like suggestions on books or on-line resources, feel free to pm me with further questions.

lw

ty for the feedback. i would like to add but doesnt really make such a big difference, is that im jewish and i would likem y coffee shop to be kosher and its for the jewish community. i really dont know where to hire expereinced coffee makers lol or if there is kosher products which you stated. any help will be appreciated. ty

 

[eldub]

While we're not jewish, I've been talking to a local Rabbi about getting Kosher certification on our roasting facility, believe it or not. If you purchase new equipment, getting kosher certified should be no problem, except for the cost.

I'm guessing running an ad in the Village Voice would be one place to start looking for a god barista. If I was you, I'd be willing to pay someone with strong industry knowledge a premium wage to come on board. Imo, hiring (and retaining) this person could make or break your venture due to your lack of knowledge in the industry.

 

[StaMountainCoffee]

IW I'm glad you were joking, but I have to say it any way, best coffee beans does not come from a particular country, any coffee 100% arabica, estate grown, high grown, shaded, hand pick ripe berries, washed and sun dry, Hot air roasted will provide a great cup of coffee. Star Mountain Coffee has it all! You can visit us in Building # 141 Federal Circle JFK International Airport, Jamaica NY 11430

 

[eldub]

EFK: Here's a link to a site giving guidelines on keeping your coffee shop kosher.

Star-K Kosher Certification - Kosher Consumer

StaMountain: I agree 100%. However, the examples I gave above concerning the best coffee beans for Italian coffee was a joke to the extent that coffee beans aren't even grown in Italy, as far as I know. On top of that, the cities I chose to claim as the best locations for growing coffee in Italy, (Trieste and Bologna) could be roughly translated as "sad baloney."

 

[EFK]

Thanks for the reply guys. Now that I know Italy is not the best in coffee, maybe u should switch My shop up and not have a country theme to it. Instead I'll just have all sorts if coffee beans and people can pick what beans from what country they want. I really need an experienced guy for sure like you have said. I also saw on YouTube if people making amazing and customer attractive designs in the coffee. Maybe I should hire someone who knows how to make those designs. I'm not to concerned about the jaegers of the beans and like you said new machinery can be kashered without a problem. I would just like to understand if there are diff machines for diff types of coffees. And if so what's a good company or if I can rent them( but brand new ones not old ones/ still iffy idk lol) and what about interior decorations and such? I really would like to see a working and stable coffee shop to get a hands on feeling if you know what Im trying to say.

 

[eldub]

Nothing wrong with an italian themed coffee shop, imo. They make a mean cup of espresso in Italy and most espresso machines are Italian. You could still have beans from around the world, as stated above.

The main difference between drip coffee and espresso is the grind and degree of roast. Espresso is ground finer than drip. Many espresso blends are traditionally roasted darker but don't have to be. Different beans can also be used depending on flavor profile desired. I'm pretty sure sweeter, less acidic beans are generally preferred for espresso blends. Bunn and fetco make good commercial drip machines.

Here are a few books and links you might find interesting and informative:

Home Coffee Roasting - Romance and Revival by Kenneth Davids
Espresso: Ultimate Coffe by Kenneth Davids
The Art and Craft of Coffee by Kevin Sinnott
Espresso Coffeerofessional techniques by David Schomer
The Basics of Cupping Coffee byTed Lingle

On-line resources:

sweetmarias.com
scca.org
coffeegeek.com
coffeereview.com

 

[EFK]

Ty. I'll get in contact with my partner and let him know what I have found out lol. And I'm going to start hunting down some professionals so that I don't fall threw the cracks.

 

[EFK]

Ok guys I'm back. I gathered all the information from this post and other places I searched around on google, and my partner likes the ideas. We are just missing the final link which I'd the costs. He wants me to gIve him an approximate number for this project. Can anyone help me out calculating all my expenses machinery equipment goods and all of that fun stuff. I would also like to hire a person that is knowledgeable in this coffee business and knows how to make a good cup of coffee. And I would like to add some jazz to my coffees hiring a person who knows how to create milk designs in the coffees. If anyone knows a place where I can start lookin or know a agency or something of that sort that would be great Ty for your time.

 

[eldub]

Cost will depend on if you are buying new or used equipment. For instance, i've found fetco dual 3.5 gallon drip brew systems for as low as $850 used on ebay and I'm pretty sure new they can run over $3,000. Refurbished two group espresso machines can go for as low as $2,500 and upwards of $12,000 new. If I was you, I'd contact a local distribution/repair company and set up a time to meet. After learning more about your needs, they will be able to give you a quote on equipment prices, both new and refurbished. My guess is that you are looking at around $20,000 in equipment costs if you purchase refurbished coffee making equipment and new refrigerator and ice makers. (With minimum of $50,000 and maybe up to $100,000 needed for start-up.)

Much of your expenses will depend on the site you choose. If you pick a location that already has a three hole sink, employee hand washing sink, mop basin, grease trap, etc, your start-up costs will be much lower than if you have to put money into plumbing and fixtures. Installing a grease interceptor can run as high as $30,000 alone. The space you choose will dictate, in part, how much you need to spend. Finding a location with the right plumbing and existing grease trap will lower your start-up costs substantially.

Please remember that we're located in the midwest. East coast prices, including rent and labor might well be higher than what we're paying here.

As for the milk design artist, I wouldn't worry about that aspect too much. However, because of your lack of industry knowledge, you REALLY need to find a competent person who can run the front end of that coffee shop, imo. That should be the primary focus of your first hire.

lw

 

[John P]

EFK,

In order to run a competent coffee operation, you need to become enough of an expert to be able to tell the difference between who IS an expert and who IS NOT. If you don't have a certain level of expertise, you aren't going to know flash from substance.

Take your time.

My rule is that it should be a minimum of one year from idea inception until you think of signing a lease anywhere. Travel. Learn. Go to at least one SCAA and one Coffeefest and avail yourself of all the classes and education you can. It's your dime, if you don't make wise decisions with it, it's likely to dwindle away fast.

It's the results that matter, not whether they know how many holes are in an average portafilter or how to pour latte art.

The number one reason for failure in the coffee (and restaurant) business is lack of preparation. Whether it's location, money, machinery, product expertise and knowledge, management, etc. -- every single one of those is an aspect of preparation.

As a dose of reality to someone who may be entering with rose-colored glasses looking for the "romance" of owning a coffee shop: I read these kinds of post time after time after time, and I see horror stories about to happen. The questions you ask, the general lack of knowledge on the most basic and fundamental aspects of the business, and the sheer outright laziness you have to find out these answers for yourself will not bode well for you. Knowledge, as well as success, is earned not given.

As I said before. Take your time and educate yourself.

 

[CCafe]

Much of your expenses will depend on the site you choose. If you pick a location that already has a three hole sink, employee hand washing sink, mop basin, grease trap, etc, your start-up costs will be much lower than if you have to put money into plumbing and fixtures. Installing a grease interceptor can run as high as $30,000 alone. The space you choose will dictate, in part, how much you need to spend. Finding a location with the right plumbing and existing grease trap will lower your start-up costs substantially.

Careful now. Grease interceptors are based on size of business needs. So if your serving thousands of people and have seating room for hundreds, then throw on what your cooking your grease trap isn't going to stop at $30,000. I know a company a few years ago that had its main coffee house project shut down for a little over a month as city stopped all work and had them installed 2-10,000 gallon grease tanks out in the front yard. Granted this was in an office building but to say it can cost you upwards of $30,000 is wrong. Its all based on the size and scope of your project.