Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30
  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    by the way, all the great coffee beans, such as Geisha, Pacamara, Yellow Bourbon, Maragogype...etc, you will hardly ever find them with organic / FT certificate.
    Because no farm will sell their great beans at just $0.20 above market commercial pricing.

    if you have time, please do some research and check out for yourself.

    no great beans will be certified in any organic nor fair trade.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    691
    Quote Originally Posted by ensoluna View Post
    many people believes that organic / FT beans are the better beans, more healthy & even more tastier than regular beans.

    FAR from the truth!
    People also believe eating Tide pods is a good things... haha. I don't have the impression that Organic is better or tastier... simply. And I will certainly agree that people have that opinion but they are incorrect.

    Per the USDA Organic simply means " Organic is a labeling term for food or other agricultural products that have been produced using cultural, biological, and mechanical practices that support the cycling of on-farm resources, promote ecological balance, and conserve biodiversity in accordance with the USDA organic regulations. This means that organic operations must maintain or enhance soil and water quality, while also conserving wetlands, woodlands, and wildlife. Synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering may not be used. "


    And regarding great beans that are Organic - there was a Brazil Organic in COE and there is this example - are you saying they are only getting .20 over C level pricing?

    https://invalsacoffee.com/collection.../cr-volcanazul

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Musicphan View Post
    People also believe eating Tide pods is a good things... haha. I don't have the impression that Organic is better or tastier... simply. And I will certainly agree that people have that opinion but they are incorrect.

    Per the USDA Organic simply means " Organic is a labeling term for food or other agricultural products that have been produced using cultural, biological, and mechanical practices that support the cycling of on-farm resources, promote ecological balance, and conserve biodiversity in accordance with the USDA organic regulations. This means that organic operations must maintain or enhance soil and water quality, while also conserving wetlands, woodlands, and wildlife. Synthetic fertilizers, sewage sludge, irradiation, and genetic engineering may not be used. "


    And regarding great beans that are Organic - there was a Brazil Organic in COE and there is this example - are you saying they are only getting .20 over C level pricing?

    https://invalsacoffee.com/collection.../cr-volcanazul
    yes, "most" of people has incorrect impression of Organic beans. that is a truth.

    I did not say that organic will get .30 over C. I said, it will get .30 over commercial bean pricing which is C + .30/.40. as of now, C is at $1.18. so, organic will be 1.18 + .30 (or .40) + .30 = 1.78 or so.

    BTW, something is definitely wrong with the costa rica volcan azul coffee that you sent the link.
    they are selling one pound of roasted bean at $10.49 which is an impossible pricing, if they are in fact CoE 2016 winner.

    https://allianceforcoffeeexcellence....sta-rica-2016/

    this is the link of coe 2016 costa rica winner, which is up to 21 place. the 21 place which is last place got $10.20 for one pound of green bean. but this is an auction which means whomever buy these auctioned coffee will re-sell to consumers or other roasters at much higher pricing.

    volcan azul is not listed as any winners of coe 2016.
    Last edited by ensoluna; 02-19-2018 at 08:04 AM.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    I do not know about other countries (but probably in very similar situation), but in Guatemala, most of organic farms are very small (20 bags to less than 100 bags per year yield) and very poor farms.

    Main reason is very simple.
    chemical fertilizer is about 3 times more expensive than organic fertilizers, so for poor farmers, they tend to use organic fertilizers to grow their coffee and apply for organic certificate.

    And most of well known big and rich farms, they tend to use the best chemical fertilizers to maximize the yield with best processing and with quality pickers to make their beans as high score as possible. Then, they can sell their beans easily above $2.50 per pound.

    ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT ORGANIC PLANTATION IS THAT THEIR ANNUAL YIELD IS ABOUT 25% TO 35% LESS THAN THE FARMS THAT USES CHEMICAL FERTILIZERS.

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    Organic coffee is farmed without pesticides is a fiction.

    organic coffee can be treated with wide range of pesticides.
    It just means the pesticides used are organic (natural) vs. synthetic.
    And increasingly, research suggests that natural pesticides can be as toxic as synthetic ones. Worse, many argue that runoff from natural pesticides may in fact be more harmful to water-based ecosystems.

    so... what is organic pesticide?
    by the way, organic foods are not necessarily pesticide-free. The pesticides that are allowed for organic food production are typically not man-made. They tend to have natural substances like soaps, lime sulfur and hydrogen peroxide as ingredients. Not only are organic pesticides not safe, they might actually be worse than the ones used by the conventional agriculture industry according to Canadian scientists who published this article in 2011.

    IMO, I can not really tell who is right and wrong.
    they all have their own comments and opinions from their own studies.
    However, one thing for sure... whomever has more money and marketing funds will win the argument.

  6. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    We have a lot of forum roasters participating in this discussion. So, I would like to ask them their "very honest opinion" about this.

    According to Organic Assoc. and their rules and conditions, the coffee roasts labeled organic must be roasted on a separate roaster or at least one that has been thoroughly cleaned between roasts.

    Even if the beans are certified organic, they can not be labeled as Organic coffee when these beans go into a roaster that has been used for non-certified beans.
    For this specific reason, most of small roasters either sell all organic or none at all. (but I am certain that there are many who do not keep this conditions and just mix using them, shipping out regular & organic labeled beans at the same time).

    Finally, what goes for the roaster should also technically extend to the grinder and brewing equipment. If not, that means that even certified grown organic beans, processed, or roasted in certified organic ways are completely contaminated (supposedly...) by the time you really take a sip of your favorite "ORGANIC" COFFEE.

    I just wonder.... what is the real percentage of organic coffee beans when it reaches to the final cup for consumers.....

    every possible steps of the way.. the roasters will use a separate roaster just for organic, in retail level, will they use dedicated grinders? will they use also dedicated brewing methods... just for organic beans?

    I highly doubt it.

    Then, if some of us agree on this point, probably most of us, then, what really is the point of Organic coffee?

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Cucamonga
    Posts
    35
    Interesting discussion. Now here's another monkey wrench I can throw in it. Keep in mind that I am strictly a home roaster and coffee consumer, and I have NO first-hand knowledge of what I speak.

    I recall reading a year or two ago, in regard to Organic Peruvian coffee, that the organic certification process can indirectly result in deforestation! That is because it is more costly and time consuming to get an existing farm certified as organic than it is to start a new farm in a virgin part of the rain forest.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    Quote Originally Posted by CucamongaDan View Post
    Interesting discussion.
    I recall reading a year or two ago, in regard to Organic Peruvian coffee, that the organic certification process can indirectly result in deforestation! That is because it is more costly and time consuming to get an existing farm certified as organic than it is to start a new farm in a virgin part of the rain forest.
    hi Dan. I did not hear about deforestation due to organic farm.

    and being more costly? In terms of buying fertilizer, probably not. (but in a long run, yes, it could be because you have to either get extra loan or sometimes even go bankrupt)

    but time consuming? definitely yes.

    let's say that you have a regular farm which you want to turn into organic farm.
    then, you have to start using organic fertilizers to change your land (basically washing out the chemical residues..) to organic FOR 3 YEARS!!!!

    After 3 years of using organic only, then, you can apply and become organic farm.

    but the main problem is that these are very small farms with small production and extremely poor.
    when you start to change from chemical fertilizer to organic, your yield starts to decrease. after 3 years, you will lose up to 35% of your total production.

    so the main problem is that.... you are already suffering due to small yield. then, during 3 years, you will be keep losing your yield and you can not get extra money until 3 years later, after you get certified. So, many farms have to take on loans (they have to. there is no other way around it) to survive for 3 years or some case, they go bankrupt and have to sell their farms to others.

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    691

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Quetzaltenango, Guatemala
    Posts
    3,340
    YES, Good Organic promotional article to support and market CoffeeQuest company in Rotterdam, Netherlands.

    I know Las Delicias coffee farm in Palencia, Guatemala.
    As the article says, they are in fact a Organic farm which is being heavily supported by CoffeeQuest company in Netherlands, in order to promote and sell Organic coffee in Europe. But mostly, CoffeeQuest is using this farm for their company "Tours" and marketing base.

    Thanks for bring this to my attention, MusicPhan. I completely forgot about this case in Guatemala :+)

    I believe that there are thousands and thousands of small / tiny organic farms in Guatemala, specially Huehuetenango area which is the poorest & hardest to reach region in Guatemala. (even most of my customers do not want to go there because it takes 12 to 15 hours of driving to just see one dinky farm up on the mountain, from Guatemala city or Antigua.)

    But guess what?! Las Delicias is in Palencia which is just an hour drive from Guatemala city. Perfect and easy location for a foreign coffee buyer to visit, take photos, support and do some marketing for themselves. (honestly, no one will ever choose a real poor and struggling organic farms in Huehuetenango where most of the problems are at... just too far, too difficult to get to, too much of driving, too dangerous.... )

    anyway, Las delicias is famous because this is one of very few selected farms to promote Organic assoc in Guatemala.
    Actually this farm is working very close with CoffeeQuest, almost like their brand office.

    This farm produce not so much. Total about 100bags a year. (69kgs), but probably about half might be considered as Specialty coffee. (you have to realize that very first month and very last month of harvested coffee quality is much lower than middle month harvested coffee. That is just due to coffee characteristics which will take very long writing, if I have to explain...)

    photo 1 : I believe that the owner of this farm got invited to this coffee festival to support CoffeeQuest's marketing
    2 & 4 : not sure who they are, but probably from coffeequest? most likely...
    3 : "it" = coffeequest? (ha ha ha.. I know that is not what really means, but in this case of this farm, yes, it is true that coffeequest chose them)
    5 : this photo is from the instagram of the farm. GREEN HOUSE WITH AFRICAN BEDS???? 99% of real organic farms do not have the fund to build this kind of fancy drying facility.

    Organic coffee beans in the Natural-16583665_138961769954569_8588473263737274368_n.jpgOrganic coffee beans in the Natural-16788581_189718388180173_3286032594306596864_n.jpgOrganic coffee beans in the Natural-17125378_1760690624259830_8242378571323015168_n-1-.jpgOrganic coffee beans in the Natural-17265663_1807039572892752_7629308724674297856_n.jpgOrganic coffee beans in the Natural-17438143_793845194106867_1815370186530750464_n.jpg
    Last edited by ensoluna; 02-20-2018 at 07:17 AM.

 

 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Organic Coffee Beans
    By MananbirSingh in forum Business to Business B2B
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-18-2016, 07:07 AM
  2. Organic Civet Coffee Beans from Sumbawa
    By kopimentaripagi in forum Business to Business B2B
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-01-2012, 06:45 AM
  3. Organic Coffee Beans - Why You Should Make the Switch Now
    By tracy6413 in forum Coffee Beans & Espresso Beans
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-10-2011, 04:51 AM
  4. Organic Coffee Beans??
    By garyrichardson1234 in forum Coffee Beans & Espresso Beans
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 11-25-2010, 12:20 AM