View entire thread: The popular cafe
Posted by Var on 2008-06-22 11:37:29 Post Subject: The popular cafe
Several times I've thought about starting a cafe in order to "do it right" in the US.
This is surely a generic phenomenon in business: You see something being done incorrectly, with mistakes that might even be glaring, obvious pitfalls not avoided, obvious opportunities missed, obvious gripes voiced by customers falling on deaf ears, or you hear stories of business that are like slow motion car accidents. And you start thinking that if they're doing it so badly and yet are still in business, you surely can do it better. And you start planning to make your own attempt at it.
Then, in talking with others, you hear about other people who thought about doing precisely the same thing but backed out. And again, the obvious pitfalls appear, etc.
For instance, at one point I was told that an acquaintance wanted to start a cafe and believed the costs would be quite large, in the many 10's of thousands of dollars. I was aghast but then I learned he was fixated on the idea of starting a Starbucks franchise, and enduring all the fees imposed by Starbucks, buying their equipment, having their person come in and design the place, follow all their rules et cetera. It seemed an obvious pitfall.
I later visited a Coffee Beanery(?) and heard the same thing. Franchise fees were astronomical, such that the business was constantly on the verge of failure because huge loan payments were necessary. It sounded like the fees were actually a bit higher than with Starbucks. I heard some of the rules about how things must appear were bizarre. Again, an obvious pitfall: franchises are expensive.
I would never start a franchise. They are to me an unnecessary expense but also, existing franchises provide a constant stream of examples of how not to do things (hence my other posts).
From observation I've noticed that the many popular cafes do not fit the model that franchises like Starbucks adhere to.
Some popular cafes have rather humble, cheap coffee-making equipment.
Some popular cafes have used furniture, the kind you'd find at a yard sale.
Some popular cafes don't even have great coffee.
Some popular cafes have locations that are difficult to reach or require circling the blocks for 10 minutes to find parking.
Some popular cafes have almost no interior room but do have a good location e.g. next to a theater that has ample parking.
Some popular cafes may have only one food item that is good, but it is very good and people come back for it.
One of the most popular cafes that I went to was along a major street, 2 lanes each way, so lots of noise and presumably pollution. But it had spacious outdoor seating, great coffee, well dressed employees, no paper cups.
Back to top | view poster's profile
Posted by Var on 2008-06-22 11:37:29 Post Subject: The popular cafe
Several times I've thought about starting a cafe in order to "do it right" in the US.
This is surely a generic phenomenon in business: You see something being done incorrectly, with mistakes that might even be glaring, obvious pitfalls not avoided, obvious opportunities missed, obvious gripes voiced by customers falling on deaf ears, or you hear stories of business that are like slow motion car accidents. And you start thinking that if they're doing it so badly and yet are still in business, you surely can do it better. And you start planning to make your own attempt at it.
Then, in talking with others, you hear about other people who thought about doing precisely the same thing but backed out. And again, the obvious pitfalls appear, etc.
For instance, at one point I was told that an acquaintance wanted to start a cafe and believed the costs would be quite large, in the many 10's of thousands of dollars. I was aghast but then I learned he was fixated on the idea of starting a Starbucks franchise, and enduring all the fees imposed by Starbucks, buying their equipment, having their person come in and design the place, follow all their rules et cetera. It seemed an obvious pitfall.
I later visited a Coffee Beanery(?) and heard the same thing. Franchise fees were astronomical, such that the business was constantly on the verge of failure because huge loan payments were necessary. It sounded like the fees were actually a bit higher than with Starbucks. I heard some of the rules about how things must appear were bizarre. Again, an obvious pitfall: franchises are expensive.
I would never start a franchise. They are to me an unnecessary expense but also, existing franchises provide a constant stream of examples of how not to do things (hence my other posts).
From observation I've noticed that the many popular cafes do not fit the model that franchises like Starbucks adhere to.
Some popular cafes have rather humble, cheap coffee-making equipment.
Some popular cafes have used furniture, the kind you'd find at a yard sale.
Some popular cafes don't even have great coffee.
Some popular cafes have locations that are difficult to reach or require circling the blocks for 10 minutes to find parking.
Some popular cafes have almost no interior room but do have a good location e.g. next to a theater that has ample parking.
Some popular cafes may have only one food item that is good, but it is very good and people come back for it.
One of the most popular cafes that I went to was along a major street, 2 lanes each way, so lots of noise and presumably pollution. But it had spacious outdoor seating, great coffee, well dressed employees, no paper cups.
Back to top | view poster's profile
View entire thread: mobile coffee van.
Posted by ozzyowl1 on 2005-02-07 10:57:41 Post Subject:
ozzyowl1, try this link. http://www.towability.com/Site-page.htm
And go to the bottom of the page for the mobile espresso units. Maybe they will know of a used mobile espresso unit or two.
Daniel.Thanks,but towability trucks are £20k + which seems rather expensive. The truck itself can be bought for £5k but I would need someone to fit it out with the coffee making equipment etc, does anyone know of anyone?
Back to top | view poster's profile
Posted by ozzyowl1 on 2005-02-07 10:57:41 Post Subject:
ozzyowl1, try this link. http://www.towability.com/Site-page.htm
And go to the bottom of the page for the mobile espresso units. Maybe they will know of a used mobile espresso unit or two.
Daniel.Thanks,but towability trucks are £20k + which seems rather expensive. The truck itself can be bought for £5k but I would need someone to fit it out with the coffee making equipment etc, does anyone know of anyone?
Back to top | view poster's profile
View entire thread: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\"
Posted by Kevin J on 2007-03-04 18:00:29 Post Subject: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\"
Hello All,
After taking sometime searching the forums I''ve already answered many of my questions yet a few uncertainties still remain and I wasn''t quite sure which section of the forum to post in. First off, I am by no mean a coffee expert or make a living or even plan on making a living off coffee, although a large portion of my income goes towards coffee. I''m am in the process of purchasing coffee making equipment and would greatly appreciate any input.
Tommorow morning I''m about to purchase my first batch of green beans and possibly a budget roaster (stove-top) should that pan-out I will go for a home roaster. Is an automatic roaster that much better then a stove-top, fyring pan, microwave or air popper, or is it more of a simplicity/repeatability issue?
From what I''ve read I should throw my blade grinder in the garbage and get a burr grinder, a local coffee supply shop has hand-powed grinders on sale will they suffice or is a powered one that much better?
Finally from what I''ve read many members are drip coffee maker fans. I''ve always found drip-coffee to be inferior to french press, espresso press or even perk coffee; just a personal preferance thing i suppose. At the moment I use an automatic percolator, stove top percolator, french press and stove top espresso maker; from time to time i simply boil water with grounds in it. At work we have a Capresso C1000 which IMHO produces an exceptional cup. That begin said what are the pros/cons regarding taste about different methods of extraction?
Thank you for your input,
Kevin
Back to top | view poster's profile
Posted by Kevin J on 2007-03-04 18:00:29 Post Subject: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\"
Hello All,
After taking sometime searching the forums I''ve already answered many of my questions yet a few uncertainties still remain and I wasn''t quite sure which section of the forum to post in. First off, I am by no mean a coffee expert or make a living or even plan on making a living off coffee, although a large portion of my income goes towards coffee. I''m am in the process of purchasing coffee making equipment and would greatly appreciate any input.
Tommorow morning I''m about to purchase my first batch of green beans and possibly a budget roaster (stove-top) should that pan-out I will go for a home roaster. Is an automatic roaster that much better then a stove-top, fyring pan, microwave or air popper, or is it more of a simplicity/repeatability issue?
From what I''ve read I should throw my blade grinder in the garbage and get a burr grinder, a local coffee supply shop has hand-powed grinders on sale will they suffice or is a powered one that much better?
Finally from what I''ve read many members are drip coffee maker fans. I''ve always found drip-coffee to be inferior to french press, espresso press or even perk coffee; just a personal preferance thing i suppose. At the moment I use an automatic percolator, stove top percolator, french press and stove top espresso maker; from time to time i simply boil water with grounds in it. At work we have a Capresso C1000 which IMHO produces an exceptional cup. That begin said what are the pros/cons regarding taste about different methods of extraction?
Thank you for your input,
Kevin
Back to top | view poster's profile
View entire thread: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\"
Posted by ElPugDiablo on 2007-04-30 14:18:05 Post Subject: Re: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\&qu
Hello All,
After taking sometime searching the forums I''ve already answered many of my questions yet a few uncertainties still remain and I wasn''t quite sure which section of the forum to post in. First off, I am by no mean a coffee expert or make a living or even plan on making a living off coffee, although a large portion of my income goes towards coffee. I''m am in the process of purchasing coffee making equipment and would greatly appreciate any input.
Tommorow morning I''m about to purchase my first batch of green beans and possibly a budget roaster (stove-top) should that pan-out I will go for a home roaster. Is an automatic roaster that much better then a stove-top, fyring pan, microwave or air popper, or is it more of a simplicity/repeatability issue?
From what I''ve read I should throw my blade grinder in the garbage and get a burr grinder, a local coffee supply shop has hand-powed grinders on sale will they suffice or is a powered one that much better?
Finally from what I''ve read many members are drip coffee maker fans. I''ve always found drip-coffee to be inferior to french press, espresso press or even perk coffee; just a personal preferance thing i suppose. At the moment I use an automatic percolator, stove top percolator, french press and stove top espresso maker; from time to time i simply boil water with grounds in it. At work we have a Capresso C1000 which IMHO produces an exceptional cup. That begin said what are the pros/cons regarding taste about different methods of extraction?
Thank you for your input,
Kevin
A hand grinder such as a Zassenhaus? It's a good alternative to electric grinders.
Don't use a peculator, and don't boil the water. Idea temp should be about 200F. Too hot and you will burn the coffee.
Back to top | view poster's profile
Posted by ElPugDiablo on 2007-04-30 14:18:05 Post Subject: Re: Help Answer a Few Questions From a \"Green Bean\&qu
Hello All,
After taking sometime searching the forums I''ve already answered many of my questions yet a few uncertainties still remain and I wasn''t quite sure which section of the forum to post in. First off, I am by no mean a coffee expert or make a living or even plan on making a living off coffee, although a large portion of my income goes towards coffee. I''m am in the process of purchasing coffee making equipment and would greatly appreciate any input.
Tommorow morning I''m about to purchase my first batch of green beans and possibly a budget roaster (stove-top) should that pan-out I will go for a home roaster. Is an automatic roaster that much better then a stove-top, fyring pan, microwave or air popper, or is it more of a simplicity/repeatability issue?
From what I''ve read I should throw my blade grinder in the garbage and get a burr grinder, a local coffee supply shop has hand-powed grinders on sale will they suffice or is a powered one that much better?
Finally from what I''ve read many members are drip coffee maker fans. I''ve always found drip-coffee to be inferior to french press, espresso press or even perk coffee; just a personal preferance thing i suppose. At the moment I use an automatic percolator, stove top percolator, french press and stove top espresso maker; from time to time i simply boil water with grounds in it. At work we have a Capresso C1000 which IMHO produces an exceptional cup. That begin said what are the pros/cons regarding taste about different methods of extraction?
Thank you for your input,
Kevin
A hand grinder such as a Zassenhaus? It's a good alternative to electric grinders.
Don't use a peculator, and don't boil the water. Idea temp should be about 200F. Too hot and you will burn the coffee.
Back to top | view poster's profile