View entire thread: Georgia Coffee [JAPAN]
Posted by nuckit on 2008-12-06 00:17:37 Post Subject: Georgia Coffee [JAPAN]
Do any of you guys know Georgia Canned Coffee which is a hit in Japan? Do any of you guys has already tasted it? And do any of you know why it is so popular in Japan?
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Posted by nuckit on 2008-12-06 00:17:37 Post Subject: Georgia Coffee [JAPAN]
Do any of you guys know Georgia Canned Coffee which is a hit in Japan? Do any of you guys has already tasted it? And do any of you know why it is so popular in Japan?
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View entire thread: fair trade article
Posted by topher on 2004-10-07 10:49:29 Post Subject: fair trade article
Fair Trade coffee demand sparks debate on workers' wages, lives
BY JAKE BATSELL
The Seattle Times
BALGUE, Nicaragua - (KRT) - Coffee has helped provide water for Jose Felix Centeno Castillo's home, school for his nine children and a better life for his fellow farmers.
Castillo and other members of his farming cooperative receive among the highest prices in the coffee industry - $1.61 a pound - for the beans they grow under towering trees on the volcano slopes of Ometepe Island, Nicaragua.
But do not look for a Fair Trade Certified label on the packages that carry Castillo's coffee. That coveted stamp of approval costs money - farmers and roasters pay for the label - and would shave hundreds of dollars from his co-op's annual earnings.
The co-op's coffee, sold in the United States by a Bainbridge Island, Wash., nonprofit, is marketed as "fair-traded." It is a semantic difference that highlights a growing debate within the specialty-coffee industry about workers' wages and their quality of life.
Booming U.S. demand for Fair Trade coffee has triggered an industrywide tiff about what exactly "fair" means when it comes to paying farmers.
Oakland, Calif.-based TransFair USA labels Fair Trade coffee after certifying it was grown by small-scale farm co-ops that were paid a fair price - at least $1.26 a pound - for their beans.
Other growers and sellers are finding ways to call attention to their sustainably grown coffees, which they say also provide a decent living for farmers. Fair Trade label or not, they say, their coffee is sustainably grown, or farmed in a way that respects the environment and is fair to workers.
"To say that everything else that we're doing is not good, and what they're doing is good - it's been a big struggle for us," said Pete Rogers, green-coffee buyer for JBR Gourmet Foods in San Leandro, Calif.
JBR often pays more than Fair Trade prices for its coffee, Rogers said, and it sponsors dozens of community-development programs in countries such as Mexico and Zambia.
"What they (TransFair USA) have done is a great job of selling the public on the idea," said Seattle's Best Coffee founder Jim Stewart, who sold his stake in Seattle's Best but still owns an organic coffee farm in Costa Rica. "It's kind of an easy way out. You see that stamp and you say, `Ha.'"
---
Volatile swings in the global coffee supply have slashed wages for thousands of farmers and workers in recent years.
Unroasted coffee beans that sold for nearly $2 a pound wholesale in 1997 dipped to under 50 cents a pound in 2002 - a price below many farmers' production costs, which generally average 60 cents to 90 cents a pound in Central America. Prices now hover between 70 and 80 cents a pound.
Fair Trade Certified coffee spares farmers from the ups and downs of commodities markets by establishing a minimum price for their product - currently $1.26 a pound for arabica beans, the type preferred by specialty roasters. Independent monitors confirm farms receive the Fair Trade price.
Since it began certifying coffee in 1998, TransFair USA has seen demand rise sharply for packages bearing its black-and-white Fair Trade label. Last year, the organization certified 18.7 million pounds of coffee, nearly doubling its 2002 total.
Dunkin' Donuts recently introduced a line of Fair Trade espresso drinks, and even canned-coffee giant Procter & Gamble, maker of Folgers, has developed a Fair Trade blend under its Millstone label.
Other retailers have taken the concept much further - a Fair Trade-only coffee company called Equal Exchange has become increasingly popular with church groups around the country, and Caffe Ladro, a seven-store independent chain in Seattle, serves "triple-certified" coffee that is Fair Trade, organic and shade-grown. Retail prices vary, but Fair Trade, organic and shade-grown coffees are generally a bit more expensive than standard specialty coffees - a few cents more for espresso drinks and about $1 more for a 1-pound bag.
"The vast majority of consumers and citizens in this country sympathize with the underdog," said TransFair USA Chief Executive Officer Paul Rice. "If presented with a choice between coffee that helps people and coffee that doesn't, it's natural they would want to choose coffee that helps people."
Buying coffee stamped with the Fair Trade label "is a relatively effortless way for people to make a difference in the world," TransFair USA Chief Executive Officer Paul Rice said.
TransFair's model requires Fair Trade farms to be part of a democratically run co-op, a rule that has riled owners of larger farms and estates who complain they are shut out from the Fair Trade system even though they treat their workers well and pay them fairly.
Meanwhile, several smaller U.S. roasters who had sold 100 percent Fair Trade coffee broke their alliance with TransFair earlier this year, contending TransFair has become too cozy with coffee corporations such as Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts, whose Fair Trade offerings amount to a small fraction of their total coffee supply.
Even some who are eligible for Fair Trade status say they do not see why they should pay TransFair's certification fee, which until recently had been 10 cents a pound, to simply rubber-stamp what they already know to be fair and ethical business practices.
That is the stance of the Bainbridge-Ometepe Sister Island Association, which pays $1.61 a pound for the coffee grown by Castillo's co-op on Ometepe Island and sells it to Seattle-area retailers. All the coffee's profits pay for community-improvement projects on the Nicaraguan island.
"Ten cents a pound, when we do 14,000 pounds a year, is a lot of money that can go back to Ometepe," said Lee Robinson, the association's treasurer.
Rice says TransFair has reduced its certification fee schedule to as low as 5 cents a pound. He says he understands why a sister-island association based on direct personal interaction would find it unnecessary to pay for third-party certification.
But on a larger scale, he said, the Fair Trade label provides skeptical consumers with verification that companies are paying fair prices to growers.
"It doesn't mean we are the only way, but right now we are the only company that provides independent verification," Rice said.
---
A number of U.S. roasters and retailers say TransFair's model is one of many ways to protect farmers and the environment through sustainable growing methods - that is, techniques that benefit workers and the environment.
Starbucks, which says Fair Trade coffee accounts for about 1 percent of the coffee it buys, started an incentive system three years ago that paid premiums of up to 10 cents a pound to growers who met certain social and environmental criteria, such as paying at least minimum wage and treating and recycling the water used to wash beans. Starbucks says it paid an average of $1.20 a pound for the unroasted coffee it bought last year.
JBR Gourmet Foods, whose signature product is its 3-pound bags of San Francisco Bay French Roast sold at Costco stores, says it pays at least $1.38 a pound at 18 coffee farms around the world. It also pays for community projects, which have included schools, medical clinics and a baseball field.
While his company makes three Fair Trade blends under its Organic Coffee Co. brand, Rogers said the Fair Trade logo can leave consumers with a misguided perception that any other coffee is not sustainably grown.
"We really believe we're making more of a direct impact with what we do," Rogers said.
Jim Stewart, who founded Seattle's Best Coffee before selling his stake but still owns an organic coffee farm in Costa Rica, said TransFair's set prices can reduce the incentive for farmers and workers to produce a high-quality crop.
Instead, Stewart said he prefers to encourage workers to pick ripe beans by offering perks based on a full season's harvest. During Stewart's tenure at Seattle's Best, the company earmarked profits from each year's crop for projects such as schools and water pumps. He and his wife, farm owner Luz Marina Trujillo, still deliver new school uniforms each year to the families who work at their farms in Costa Rica.
The incentive-based approach, Stewart said, tells workers that "because you've done such a good job, your coffee has more international value, and here's some of that value for you to use in your community."
"It's not just more money - `Here it is, good luck,'" Stewart said. "It's a reward. It's not a gift. It's not a donation. It's not charity."
Rice said while community projects sponsored by individual coffee companies are commendable and well-intentioned, they also can be seen as a form of paternalism.
"We just believe there's a more sustainable model that empowers farmers to help themselves," Rice said.
Global demand for Fair Trade coffee is still relatively low - Fair Trade coffee accounts for perhaps 5 percent of specialty-coffee sales in the U.S. - but that demand is growing. Rice said Fair Trade farmers have plenty of incentive to strive for top quality. If they do not pay attention to quality, he said, their coffee will not sell.
---
With demand rising for Fair Trade and other eco- and worker-friendly coffees, caffeinated consumers are wading through what can be a confusing array of labels. Shoppers perusing the 12-ounce bags at their favorite espresso bar or grocery store often must choose between organic or shade-grown, or Fair Trade versus fair-traded.
A recent stroll down a Safeway aisle found coffees bearing three organic logos, the Fair Trade symbol and descriptions including shade-grown and "100% mountain farmed."
Rogers suggests the U.S. government take up the issue of Fair Trade coffee, similar to how the U.S. Agriculture Department recently introduced a "USDA Organic" logo.
"There's all these myriads of certifications out there that confuse the consumer," Rogers said. "If the government were willing to get involved with Fair Trade, I think that would be a very positive step for the consumer."
---
The Carlos Diaz Cajina Cooperative on Ometepe Island is not part of the Fair Trade program. But with the co-op's coffee selling for $1.61 a pound, its farmers say they feel fairly compensated. During the Sandinista era in the 1980s, they received less than 20 cents a pound.
"We have a better life," Castillo, 66, said through an interpreter. "Before, selling coffee at that price, I didn't have the money to survive. I didn't have money for the food I needed, for clothes."
Coffee profits have brought a water system to his village and helped him pay school fees for his six sons and three daughters, he said.
"Maybe it's not that our houses are nicer and we live like rich people, but now I can do things like send my kids to school," Castillo said. "Now, I'm not just subsisting. I can live more comfortably."
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Posted by topher on 2004-10-07 10:49:29 Post Subject: fair trade article
Fair Trade coffee demand sparks debate on workers' wages, lives
BY JAKE BATSELL
The Seattle Times
BALGUE, Nicaragua - (KRT) - Coffee has helped provide water for Jose Felix Centeno Castillo's home, school for his nine children and a better life for his fellow farmers.
Castillo and other members of his farming cooperative receive among the highest prices in the coffee industry - $1.61 a pound - for the beans they grow under towering trees on the volcano slopes of Ometepe Island, Nicaragua.
But do not look for a Fair Trade Certified label on the packages that carry Castillo's coffee. That coveted stamp of approval costs money - farmers and roasters pay for the label - and would shave hundreds of dollars from his co-op's annual earnings.
The co-op's coffee, sold in the United States by a Bainbridge Island, Wash., nonprofit, is marketed as "fair-traded." It is a semantic difference that highlights a growing debate within the specialty-coffee industry about workers' wages and their quality of life.
Booming U.S. demand for Fair Trade coffee has triggered an industrywide tiff about what exactly "fair" means when it comes to paying farmers.
Oakland, Calif.-based TransFair USA labels Fair Trade coffee after certifying it was grown by small-scale farm co-ops that were paid a fair price - at least $1.26 a pound - for their beans.
Other growers and sellers are finding ways to call attention to their sustainably grown coffees, which they say also provide a decent living for farmers. Fair Trade label or not, they say, their coffee is sustainably grown, or farmed in a way that respects the environment and is fair to workers.
"To say that everything else that we're doing is not good, and what they're doing is good - it's been a big struggle for us," said Pete Rogers, green-coffee buyer for JBR Gourmet Foods in San Leandro, Calif.
JBR often pays more than Fair Trade prices for its coffee, Rogers said, and it sponsors dozens of community-development programs in countries such as Mexico and Zambia.
"What they (TransFair USA) have done is a great job of selling the public on the idea," said Seattle's Best Coffee founder Jim Stewart, who sold his stake in Seattle's Best but still owns an organic coffee farm in Costa Rica. "It's kind of an easy way out. You see that stamp and you say, `Ha.'"
---
Volatile swings in the global coffee supply have slashed wages for thousands of farmers and workers in recent years.
Unroasted coffee beans that sold for nearly $2 a pound wholesale in 1997 dipped to under 50 cents a pound in 2002 - a price below many farmers' production costs, which generally average 60 cents to 90 cents a pound in Central America. Prices now hover between 70 and 80 cents a pound.
Fair Trade Certified coffee spares farmers from the ups and downs of commodities markets by establishing a minimum price for their product - currently $1.26 a pound for arabica beans, the type preferred by specialty roasters. Independent monitors confirm farms receive the Fair Trade price.
Since it began certifying coffee in 1998, TransFair USA has seen demand rise sharply for packages bearing its black-and-white Fair Trade label. Last year, the organization certified 18.7 million pounds of coffee, nearly doubling its 2002 total.
Dunkin' Donuts recently introduced a line of Fair Trade espresso drinks, and even canned-coffee giant Procter & Gamble, maker of Folgers, has developed a Fair Trade blend under its Millstone label.
Other retailers have taken the concept much further - a Fair Trade-only coffee company called Equal Exchange has become increasingly popular with church groups around the country, and Caffe Ladro, a seven-store independent chain in Seattle, serves "triple-certified" coffee that is Fair Trade, organic and shade-grown. Retail prices vary, but Fair Trade, organic and shade-grown coffees are generally a bit more expensive than standard specialty coffees - a few cents more for espresso drinks and about $1 more for a 1-pound bag.
"The vast majority of consumers and citizens in this country sympathize with the underdog," said TransFair USA Chief Executive Officer Paul Rice. "If presented with a choice between coffee that helps people and coffee that doesn't, it's natural they would want to choose coffee that helps people."
Buying coffee stamped with the Fair Trade label "is a relatively effortless way for people to make a difference in the world," TransFair USA Chief Executive Officer Paul Rice said.
TransFair's model requires Fair Trade farms to be part of a democratically run co-op, a rule that has riled owners of larger farms and estates who complain they are shut out from the Fair Trade system even though they treat their workers well and pay them fairly.
Meanwhile, several smaller U.S. roasters who had sold 100 percent Fair Trade coffee broke their alliance with TransFair earlier this year, contending TransFair has become too cozy with coffee corporations such as Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts, whose Fair Trade offerings amount to a small fraction of their total coffee supply.
Even some who are eligible for Fair Trade status say they do not see why they should pay TransFair's certification fee, which until recently had been 10 cents a pound, to simply rubber-stamp what they already know to be fair and ethical business practices.
That is the stance of the Bainbridge-Ometepe Sister Island Association, which pays $1.61 a pound for the coffee grown by Castillo's co-op on Ometepe Island and sells it to Seattle-area retailers. All the coffee's profits pay for community-improvement projects on the Nicaraguan island.
"Ten cents a pound, when we do 14,000 pounds a year, is a lot of money that can go back to Ometepe," said Lee Robinson, the association's treasurer.
Rice says TransFair has reduced its certification fee schedule to as low as 5 cents a pound. He says he understands why a sister-island association based on direct personal interaction would find it unnecessary to pay for third-party certification.
But on a larger scale, he said, the Fair Trade label provides skeptical consumers with verification that companies are paying fair prices to growers.
"It doesn't mean we are the only way, but right now we are the only company that provides independent verification," Rice said.
---
A number of U.S. roasters and retailers say TransFair's model is one of many ways to protect farmers and the environment through sustainable growing methods - that is, techniques that benefit workers and the environment.
Starbucks, which says Fair Trade coffee accounts for about 1 percent of the coffee it buys, started an incentive system three years ago that paid premiums of up to 10 cents a pound to growers who met certain social and environmental criteria, such as paying at least minimum wage and treating and recycling the water used to wash beans. Starbucks says it paid an average of $1.20 a pound for the unroasted coffee it bought last year.
JBR Gourmet Foods, whose signature product is its 3-pound bags of San Francisco Bay French Roast sold at Costco stores, says it pays at least $1.38 a pound at 18 coffee farms around the world. It also pays for community projects, which have included schools, medical clinics and a baseball field.
While his company makes three Fair Trade blends under its Organic Coffee Co. brand, Rogers said the Fair Trade logo can leave consumers with a misguided perception that any other coffee is not sustainably grown.
"We really believe we're making more of a direct impact with what we do," Rogers said.
Jim Stewart, who founded Seattle's Best Coffee before selling his stake but still owns an organic coffee farm in Costa Rica, said TransFair's set prices can reduce the incentive for farmers and workers to produce a high-quality crop.
Instead, Stewart said he prefers to encourage workers to pick ripe beans by offering perks based on a full season's harvest. During Stewart's tenure at Seattle's Best, the company earmarked profits from each year's crop for projects such as schools and water pumps. He and his wife, farm owner Luz Marina Trujillo, still deliver new school uniforms each year to the families who work at their farms in Costa Rica.
The incentive-based approach, Stewart said, tells workers that "because you've done such a good job, your coffee has more international value, and here's some of that value for you to use in your community."
"It's not just more money - `Here it is, good luck,'" Stewart said. "It's a reward. It's not a gift. It's not a donation. It's not charity."
Rice said while community projects sponsored by individual coffee companies are commendable and well-intentioned, they also can be seen as a form of paternalism.
"We just believe there's a more sustainable model that empowers farmers to help themselves," Rice said.
Global demand for Fair Trade coffee is still relatively low - Fair Trade coffee accounts for perhaps 5 percent of specialty-coffee sales in the U.S. - but that demand is growing. Rice said Fair Trade farmers have plenty of incentive to strive for top quality. If they do not pay attention to quality, he said, their coffee will not sell.
---
With demand rising for Fair Trade and other eco- and worker-friendly coffees, caffeinated consumers are wading through what can be a confusing array of labels. Shoppers perusing the 12-ounce bags at their favorite espresso bar or grocery store often must choose between organic or shade-grown, or Fair Trade versus fair-traded.
A recent stroll down a Safeway aisle found coffees bearing three organic logos, the Fair Trade symbol and descriptions including shade-grown and "100% mountain farmed."
Rogers suggests the U.S. government take up the issue of Fair Trade coffee, similar to how the U.S. Agriculture Department recently introduced a "USDA Organic" logo.
"There's all these myriads of certifications out there that confuse the consumer," Rogers said. "If the government were willing to get involved with Fair Trade, I think that would be a very positive step for the consumer."
---
The Carlos Diaz Cajina Cooperative on Ometepe Island is not part of the Fair Trade program. But with the co-op's coffee selling for $1.61 a pound, its farmers say they feel fairly compensated. During the Sandinista era in the 1980s, they received less than 20 cents a pound.
"We have a better life," Castillo, 66, said through an interpreter. "Before, selling coffee at that price, I didn't have the money to survive. I didn't have money for the food I needed, for clothes."
Coffee profits have brought a water system to his village and helped him pay school fees for his six sons and three daughters, he said.
"Maybe it's not that our houses are nicer and we live like rich people, but now I can do things like send my kids to school," Castillo said. "Now, I'm not just subsisting. I can live more comfortably."
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View entire thread: new to forum
Posted by topher on 2005-03-23 03:27:13 Post Subject:
So you guys at coffee holding are now pushing roasted coffee huh? What brand roaster are you guys using? Are you just selling canned coffee or are you also going to venture into the bag aspect? Oh well just wondering...Tell Karen Christopher said hello.
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Posted by topher on 2005-03-23 03:27:13 Post Subject:
So you guys at coffee holding are now pushing roasted coffee huh? What brand roaster are you guys using? Are you just selling canned coffee or are you also going to venture into the bag aspect? Oh well just wondering...Tell Karen Christopher said hello.
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View entire thread: Vacuum Storage of Beans
Posted by javahill on 2004-10-18 22:59:40 Post Subject:
Squeeze the air out. That's plenty. If you vacuum pack the coffee, you risk turning it stale.
All the canned coffee that is vacuum packed is stale. The canning process removed the aroma. The coffee aroma you get when opening a can is because they inject that flavor back in.
Ideally, you'd want to take the oxygen out of the storage container and replace it with an inert gas like nitrogen. Probably out of reach of the home user.
Open a bag at a time. Squeeze the air out. Use it within a week. If you have more than one open at a time, keep they O2 out. Experts go either way on freezing. But everybody is convinced they are right.
If you have a ton of free time, sure, divide the coffee into daily bags. You may want to try it to see if you can taste the difference. If you can, great. If you can't, then just buy fresh, well packaged coffee, squeeze the air from the packaging and bo through one bag before opening the next.
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Posted by javahill on 2004-10-18 22:59:40 Post Subject:
Squeeze the air out. That's plenty. If you vacuum pack the coffee, you risk turning it stale.
All the canned coffee that is vacuum packed is stale. The canning process removed the aroma. The coffee aroma you get when opening a can is because they inject that flavor back in.
Ideally, you'd want to take the oxygen out of the storage container and replace it with an inert gas like nitrogen. Probably out of reach of the home user.
Open a bag at a time. Squeeze the air out. Use it within a week. If you have more than one open at a time, keep they O2 out. Experts go either way on freezing. But everybody is convinced they are right.
If you have a ton of free time, sure, divide the coffee into daily bags. You may want to try it to see if you can taste the difference. If you can, great. If you can't, then just buy fresh, well packaged coffee, squeeze the air from the packaging and bo through one bag before opening the next.
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View entire thread: Illy:espresso good.... beans bad?
Posted by Alun_evans on 2004-03-07 04:40:42 Post Subject:
Pretty interesting comments from Roy. In my distant past....when I was at Univesity...I used to save up my hard earned dough to buy Illy canned coffee. I would have to say it was the best canned coffee I could buy at the time. However.... one day a roaster opened a cafe/roastery in my town. My life was changed forever one Thursday afternoon (when I should have been in class) when I discovered freshly roasted beans. I will never knock Illy.... but some of the best arabica's coffees I have roasted have indeed been roasted to second crack....where oils do indeed get forced to the surface. I think the Italian roasters I have experienced...Illy, Bonomi, Lavazia etc all use percentages of robustas in their espresso blends..... could this explain the question of oils... in my experience robustas do not roast so well past the second crack
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Posted by Alun_evans on 2004-03-07 04:40:42 Post Subject:
Pretty interesting comments from Roy. In my distant past....when I was at Univesity...I used to save up my hard earned dough to buy Illy canned coffee. I would have to say it was the best canned coffee I could buy at the time. However.... one day a roaster opened a cafe/roastery in my town. My life was changed forever one Thursday afternoon (when I should have been in class) when I discovered freshly roasted beans. I will never knock Illy.... but some of the best arabica's coffees I have roasted have indeed been roasted to second crack....where oils do indeed get forced to the surface. I think the Italian roasters I have experienced...Illy, Bonomi, Lavazia etc all use percentages of robustas in their espresso blends..... could this explain the question of oils... in my experience robustas do not roast so well past the second crack
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View entire thread: Question about shelf life of whole beans in a sealed bag
Posted by CafeBlue on 2007-01-09 02:08:31 Post Subject:
You have asked a question that has many possible answers and several seemingly contradictory answers may be true in the right circumstances or with the appropriate definitions. The following comments are my opinions: based on my coffee cupping abilities, several long term quality tests, corroborative information from several other qualified people in the industry and my practical experiences with coffee roasting and packaging.
1. Shelf life may be defined based on "best before" quality considerations and or "expiration date" food safety factors. Apparently the manufacturers come to widely different conclusions.
2. The packaging material manufacturers generally focus on food safety, and many of them endorse shelf life expectations of 2 years and greater. Certainly a can, glass, ceramic or multilayer laminated flexible film package can provide an effective barrier. Preventing oxygen and moisture in the atmosphere from entering the package is a basic requirement in extended shelf life. Oxygen and moisture are the most obvious contributors to overt coffee staling, and keeping atmosphere out of the package extends shelf life.
3. The packaging does not prevent the contents from the natural process of decay/deterioration/de-gassing Carbon Dioxide (CO2)/volatile molecules (aroma) escape/complex molecules (e.g. oils) fracture and degradation. These processes occur faster if the coffee is ground vs whole bean. The detrimental effects of these aging processes are compounded by exposure to atmosphere and absorption of oxygen and water and other non-coffee aromas and flavors (such as food and spice cross-contamination).
4. Ultimate freshness and cup quality may be entirely different than "acceptable" best by date standards, and different manufacturers and different consumers have varying thresholds of "acceptable".
5. I am already tired of typing and have only scratched the surface of this multifaceted topic. I want to watch CSI.
6. Coffee (cherry, green, roasted, ground, brewed) is not fresh indefinitely. Just because it may be food safe or may not have absorbed significant deteriorating factors, does not mean it is still as fresh as the day it was roasted.
7. Acceptable for some is not acceptable for others. I do not recommend freezing coffee, unless you live past the tree line in the arctic. Brewing coffee immediately upon grinding yields the best aroma and cup quality.
8. Treat coffee like fresh produce or fresh baked goods and you will enjoy better aroma, richer flavor, and more of the complexity and uniqueness of the farmer's and roaster's best efforts.
9. Ground coffee ages significantly faster than whole bean coffee.
10. Coffee is best within one to two weeks of roasting. Most manufacturers and consumers find little significant degradation within three to five weeks of roasting. Many find it acceptable within five to eight weeks of roasting. Some determine it acceptable up to 5 to 6 months after roasting - provided the packaging was originally nitrogen flushed and/or vacuum packaged, and the entire contents are brewed immediately upon opening the package. A few think it is acceptable for other people to drink it for one or two years (or even longer) after roasting.
11. If you buy fresh roasted coffee, and it tastes significantly better than the batch you just finished, then you should consider purchasing fresh coffee more frequently.
12. Try buying fresh roasted coffee every week (every other week at the most). Buy from a vendor that replaces their roasted inventory completely within a week and will tell you the roast date. If you mail-order, consider buying from a roaster that will roast to order, or ship a "standing re-order", or join a coffee of the month club.
13. Consider canned coffee equivalent in quality to cheap canned beans or spam. Consider frozen coffee equivalent to frozen fishstix. Compare pre-ground coffee to day-old bread. Consider that day-old bread may be better than instant coffee, but some of the $5 and $10 packages at the grocery store are not as good as instant coffee.
14. Try a few different $10 to $20/pound coffees from roasters committed to quality and freshness, Then consider that $0.20 to $0.60 per serving is a far better value than just about any beverage (including spirits, wine, cola, red bull, bottled water) other than koolaid.
15. Why not enjoy only fresh roasted, exceptional coffee? No matter how much it costs, it is still affordable and great value. Why tolerate mediocrity?
Please feel free to voice dissent or request more information or prolonged diatribe. I am curious to hear what others on this forum have to contribute, too. Clearly my opinion is biased, am I too far from center?
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Posted by CafeBlue on 2007-01-09 02:08:31 Post Subject:
You have asked a question that has many possible answers and several seemingly contradictory answers may be true in the right circumstances or with the appropriate definitions. The following comments are my opinions: based on my coffee cupping abilities, several long term quality tests, corroborative information from several other qualified people in the industry and my practical experiences with coffee roasting and packaging.
1. Shelf life may be defined based on "best before" quality considerations and or "expiration date" food safety factors. Apparently the manufacturers come to widely different conclusions.
2. The packaging material manufacturers generally focus on food safety, and many of them endorse shelf life expectations of 2 years and greater. Certainly a can, glass, ceramic or multilayer laminated flexible film package can provide an effective barrier. Preventing oxygen and moisture in the atmosphere from entering the package is a basic requirement in extended shelf life. Oxygen and moisture are the most obvious contributors to overt coffee staling, and keeping atmosphere out of the package extends shelf life.
3. The packaging does not prevent the contents from the natural process of decay/deterioration/de-gassing Carbon Dioxide (CO2)/volatile molecules (aroma) escape/complex molecules (e.g. oils) fracture and degradation. These processes occur faster if the coffee is ground vs whole bean. The detrimental effects of these aging processes are compounded by exposure to atmosphere and absorption of oxygen and water and other non-coffee aromas and flavors (such as food and spice cross-contamination).
4. Ultimate freshness and cup quality may be entirely different than "acceptable" best by date standards, and different manufacturers and different consumers have varying thresholds of "acceptable".
5. I am already tired of typing and have only scratched the surface of this multifaceted topic. I want to watch CSI.
6. Coffee (cherry, green, roasted, ground, brewed) is not fresh indefinitely. Just because it may be food safe or may not have absorbed significant deteriorating factors, does not mean it is still as fresh as the day it was roasted.
7. Acceptable for some is not acceptable for others. I do not recommend freezing coffee, unless you live past the tree line in the arctic. Brewing coffee immediately upon grinding yields the best aroma and cup quality.
8. Treat coffee like fresh produce or fresh baked goods and you will enjoy better aroma, richer flavor, and more of the complexity and uniqueness of the farmer's and roaster's best efforts.
9. Ground coffee ages significantly faster than whole bean coffee.
10. Coffee is best within one to two weeks of roasting. Most manufacturers and consumers find little significant degradation within three to five weeks of roasting. Many find it acceptable within five to eight weeks of roasting. Some determine it acceptable up to 5 to 6 months after roasting - provided the packaging was originally nitrogen flushed and/or vacuum packaged, and the entire contents are brewed immediately upon opening the package. A few think it is acceptable for other people to drink it for one or two years (or even longer) after roasting.
11. If you buy fresh roasted coffee, and it tastes significantly better than the batch you just finished, then you should consider purchasing fresh coffee more frequently.
12. Try buying fresh roasted coffee every week (every other week at the most). Buy from a vendor that replaces their roasted inventory completely within a week and will tell you the roast date. If you mail-order, consider buying from a roaster that will roast to order, or ship a "standing re-order", or join a coffee of the month club.
13. Consider canned coffee equivalent in quality to cheap canned beans or spam. Consider frozen coffee equivalent to frozen fishstix. Compare pre-ground coffee to day-old bread. Consider that day-old bread may be better than instant coffee, but some of the $5 and $10 packages at the grocery store are not as good as instant coffee.
14. Try a few different $10 to $20/pound coffees from roasters committed to quality and freshness, Then consider that $0.20 to $0.60 per serving is a far better value than just about any beverage (including spirits, wine, cola, red bull, bottled water) other than koolaid.
15. Why not enjoy only fresh roasted, exceptional coffee? No matter how much it costs, it is still affordable and great value. Why tolerate mediocrity?
Please feel free to voice dissent or request more information or prolonged diatribe. I am curious to hear what others on this forum have to contribute, too. Clearly my opinion is biased, am I too far from center?
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View entire thread: old coffee, good bad or indifferent?
Posted by javahill on 2004-11-09 17:25:24 Post Subject:
The continued application of oxygen oxydizes the coffee to make it stale. It won't hurt you. It just won't taste good. It could be a great experiment for you to taste that side by side with fresh coffee.
Remember than canned coffee is stale the moment it is vacuum packed, so compare against fresh roasted and ground coffee.
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Posted by javahill on 2004-11-09 17:25:24 Post Subject:
The continued application of oxygen oxydizes the coffee to make it stale. It won't hurt you. It just won't taste good. It could be a great experiment for you to taste that side by side with fresh coffee.
Remember than canned coffee is stale the moment it is vacuum packed, so compare against fresh roasted and ground coffee.
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View entire thread:
Posted by Coffeeexpert on 2008-06-29 19:16:48 Post Subject:
As for your first question- You should really invest in a grinder and buy freshly roasted whole bean, you will taste a world of difference. If you are stubborn I suggest Illy''s drip grid canned coffee. You can pick it up at many grocery stores.
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Posted by Coffeeexpert on 2008-06-29 19:16:48 Post Subject:
As for your first question- You should really invest in a grinder and buy freshly roasted whole bean, you will taste a world of difference. If you are stubborn I suggest Illy''s drip grid canned coffee. You can pick it up at many grocery stores.
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View entire thread: New Restaurant Opening Soon is Serving Espresso - Need Help!
Posted by javahill on 2004-10-11 21:37:18 Post Subject:
Hmmm. If your friend is starting a restaurant, one thing she is going to be short on is time. I would be reluctant to advise her to get into roasting. That's a skill and it is time she probably does not have, at least until she's got the core business up and stable.
Depending on the customers, she might want to go with a branded program like Illy of Lavazza. It is canned coffee, but would support the Italian theme. If she uses espresso pods, that is one less thing to worry about. It won't be the best espresso you've ever had, but how good does it need to be?
If the espresso is going to be more of a centerpiece, then I'd say look for a coffee that also has some marketing appeal. If Illy ain't it on the taste side, take a look at Green Mountain Coffee's Dark Magic Espresso Blend. Earlier this month it won a bronze medal in London. I think it was at the Great Tastes specialty food show.
You can also check out the espressos on coffee review. http://www.coffeereview.com/allreviews.cfm?search=3 There have been great reviews lately.
Good luck.
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Posted by javahill on 2004-10-11 21:37:18 Post Subject:
Hmmm. If your friend is starting a restaurant, one thing she is going to be short on is time. I would be reluctant to advise her to get into roasting. That's a skill and it is time she probably does not have, at least until she's got the core business up and stable.
Depending on the customers, she might want to go with a branded program like Illy of Lavazza. It is canned coffee, but would support the Italian theme. If she uses espresso pods, that is one less thing to worry about. It won't be the best espresso you've ever had, but how good does it need to be?
If the espresso is going to be more of a centerpiece, then I'd say look for a coffee that also has some marketing appeal. If Illy ain't it on the taste side, take a look at Green Mountain Coffee's Dark Magic Espresso Blend. Earlier this month it won a bronze medal in London. I think it was at the Great Tastes specialty food show.
You can also check out the espressos on coffee review. http://www.coffeereview.com/allreviews.cfm?search=3 There have been great reviews lately.
Good luck.
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View entire thread: What is your take on the flavored bean?
Posted by rmb on 2005-10-04 14:48:18 Post Subject: Flavored coffees.
Flavors are big sellers and as far as I am concerned, if you can get a customer away from drinking canned coffee to drinking good coffee with a flavoring then the transition away from the flavoring will be easier. As for pre and post flavorings, can't help you there. We sell the flavorings you add to roasted coffees and they are a hit with home roasting newbies and during the holiday seasons. It makes it easier for people who don't like the taste of coffee to have a nice cup. Before I started home roasting I have to admit though that I would splurge every once in a while on a good old vanilla latte!
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Posted by rmb on 2005-10-04 14:48:18 Post Subject: Flavored coffees.
Flavors are big sellers and as far as I am concerned, if you can get a customer away from drinking canned coffee to drinking good coffee with a flavoring then the transition away from the flavoring will be easier. As for pre and post flavorings, can't help you there. We sell the flavorings you add to roasted coffees and they are a hit with home roasting newbies and during the holiday seasons. It makes it easier for people who don't like the taste of coffee to have a nice cup. Before I started home roasting I have to admit though that I would splurge every once in a while on a good old vanilla latte!
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View entire thread: Fishy, rotten smelling Folgers beans
Posted by javahill on 2006-02-14 20:36:48 Post Subject:
Canned coffee is vacuumed packed. The outgassing is accelerated. It does not follow the same protocols as craft roasted and packaged coffee.
You're comparing apples and sail rabbits.
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Posted by javahill on 2006-02-14 20:36:48 Post Subject:
Canned coffee is vacuumed packed. The outgassing is accelerated. It does not follow the same protocols as craft roasted and packaged coffee.
You're comparing apples and sail rabbits.
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View entire thread: Fishy, rotten smelling Folgers beans
Posted by javahill on 2005-04-19 21:08:35 Post Subject:
Folgers has a few things working against it. First, the beans. They are most likely cheap arabias (70 percent of the world crop is arabia and only the top 10 percent is specialty coffee) and/or robusta. Robusta is like the name suggests a hardier plan, resistant to disease and able to be grown at lower altitudes. They tend to have a much higher moisture content then high grown coffee, so it will taste thinner.
As far as the aroma, here is one of those spoilers. If you don't want to feel like you did after you found out there was no tooth fairy or Santa Claus, then by all means stop reading now.
When coffee is vacuum packed (all canned coffee and those brick-like bags) all the aroma is sucked out of the coffee. So where does the coffee smell come from? They inject it. Yup. The coffee smell was extracted from the coffee, concentrated and then shot back in. They manipulate smell like the Marlboro Man dicks with nicotine.
Sometimes they get it wrong.
So stick with people who start with great green coffee, roast it and package it fresh without a vacuum process. Either fresh packed or nitrogen flushed will produce the same result. If you're compelled to shop for coffee in a supermarket, look for one of those button filters, usually on the front of the bag. Squeeze it and check out the smell. Ground coffee will put off a better aroma because there are more surfaces of the coffee exposed to give off aroma.
I know there are purists who poo-poo bagged coffee, but they've got a commercial axe to grind. We regularly buy coffee samples and take them into our lab to test for packaging integrity, O2 contamition and taste. It is entirely possible to buy well packaged nitrogen flushed coffee that is 2-3 months old and unless you have a palate like Ken Davids or Lindsey Bolger, you're not going to know the difference. If you have a palate that good, you're not buying Folgers.
If you bought 2 cans/bags of Folgers, I would put in another caution. If you start buying better coffee, either go through all the absurd steps of dividing it in little zip lock bags, squeezing the air out and freezing them until you need them or open one bag at a time and go right through it in a week and after each use, just squeeze the air out of the bag, roll it up and clamp down the tin tie.
Of course, everyone who really has a world-class palate will have a set of standards that normal human beans read about. And then there are the people who read about the gifted few with world class palates and do their level best to imitate their actions. But that ain't you or me. If that is you, great. Do whatever you need to do to have fun and enjoy your coffee on your terms.
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Posted by javahill on 2005-04-19 21:08:35 Post Subject:
Folgers has a few things working against it. First, the beans. They are most likely cheap arabias (70 percent of the world crop is arabia and only the top 10 percent is specialty coffee) and/or robusta. Robusta is like the name suggests a hardier plan, resistant to disease and able to be grown at lower altitudes. They tend to have a much higher moisture content then high grown coffee, so it will taste thinner.
As far as the aroma, here is one of those spoilers. If you don't want to feel like you did after you found out there was no tooth fairy or Santa Claus, then by all means stop reading now.
When coffee is vacuum packed (all canned coffee and those brick-like bags) all the aroma is sucked out of the coffee. So where does the coffee smell come from? They inject it. Yup. The coffee smell was extracted from the coffee, concentrated and then shot back in. They manipulate smell like the Marlboro Man dicks with nicotine.
Sometimes they get it wrong.
So stick with people who start with great green coffee, roast it and package it fresh without a vacuum process. Either fresh packed or nitrogen flushed will produce the same result. If you're compelled to shop for coffee in a supermarket, look for one of those button filters, usually on the front of the bag. Squeeze it and check out the smell. Ground coffee will put off a better aroma because there are more surfaces of the coffee exposed to give off aroma.
I know there are purists who poo-poo bagged coffee, but they've got a commercial axe to grind. We regularly buy coffee samples and take them into our lab to test for packaging integrity, O2 contamition and taste. It is entirely possible to buy well packaged nitrogen flushed coffee that is 2-3 months old and unless you have a palate like Ken Davids or Lindsey Bolger, you're not going to know the difference. If you have a palate that good, you're not buying Folgers.
If you bought 2 cans/bags of Folgers, I would put in another caution. If you start buying better coffee, either go through all the absurd steps of dividing it in little zip lock bags, squeezing the air out and freezing them until you need them or open one bag at a time and go right through it in a week and after each use, just squeeze the air out of the bag, roll it up and clamp down the tin tie.
Of course, everyone who really has a world-class palate will have a set of standards that normal human beans read about. And then there are the people who read about the gifted few with world class palates and do their level best to imitate their actions. But that ain't you or me. If that is you, great. Do whatever you need to do to have fun and enjoy your coffee on your terms.
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