When you buy coffee, how important are organic / fair trade certifications for you?

[great8coffee]

I am curious. When you purchase coffee, how important are certifications for your purchasing decision? And which are the major certificate you are looking for? e.g. USDA, UTZ, Rainforest Alliance, Fair-Trade etc....

Does it really influence your decision if there is no certification?

 

[expat]

Up front I'll tell you (in case you miss it below) that I'm cynical about all those certifications since certifications are often proven to be hollow promises. Remember all those certified x-rays of welds on the Alaska pipeline? (Yes, I'm old enough to remember that.)

While I understand that I could probably sell a bit more coffee and get a few more cents per pound by selling certified coffee I don't buy any organic, UTZ, Fairtrade, Rainforest, etc., coffee unless I've got a customer that demands it. Once you read the forums here you'll see a lot of first-hand information about how these certifying bodies aren't all they purport themselves to be. Go beyond the forum and do some more digging and you'll find a lot more information about how far short some of these organizations fall from their original good intentions.

Some certifiers seem to be no more than toadies for the big multi-nationals. It seems some of the certifiers are more geared to helping the big coffee roasters -- think Nestle, etc. -- tick their marketing boxes than they are concerned about the farmers. I guess it is more about helping the consumer give themselves a pat on the back for being good, caring citizens. The reality seems to be that for the most part the growers are still getting screwed by the fairtraders, et al. (Did I mention that I was cynical about all this stuff?)

As to organic coffee, coffee containers coming into their destination port, or when leaving their port of origin, are fumigated to kill any bugs in the shipment. For non-organic coffee the fumigation process is pretty harsh. For organic produce an ozone fumigation process is SUPPOSED to be used but in most of the third-world ports, even in first-world ports, I question how diligent the stevedores are about using that process or even if it is affordable or sustainable for the third-worlders. When organic produce is in the same container as conventionally grown I'm not sure what the fumigators do. (Think about the guys actually doing the work, not how it is 'supposed to be done'.)

All that said, I do work with a few brokers who are heavy into direct trade (I think some people call it Farm Gate trade) where the broker has contracted directly with the grower. They usually paying more than the Faritrade price (hey, no middlemen) for the coffee and many have decades long relationships with the farmers (D. R. Wakefiled for instance is a London broker that has been way ahead of the curve in treating growers right. Back in the 70's they were the first (I think) to bank roll the farmers so they could grow next year's crop and then they'd buy the crop. And there are other brokers like that.).

Ok, time to take my cynical self and go roast some coffee.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

Go beyond the forum and do some more digging and you'll find a lot more information about how far short some of these organizations fall from their original good intentions. [Not trying to "out cynical" you expat, but this is assuming the 'original good intentions' were not just a white wash of the true intention to take advantage of consumer trust...just sayin'.]

Some certifiers seem to be no more than toadies for the big multi-nationals. It seems some of the certifiers are more geared to helping the big coffee roasters -- think Nestle, etc. -- tick their marketing boxes than they are concerned about the farmers. I guess it is more about helping the consumer give themselves a pat on the back for being good, caring citizens. The reality seems to be that for the most part the growers are still getting screwed by the fairtraders, et al. (Did I mention that I was cynical about all this stuff?)

As to organic coffee, coffee containers coming into their destination port, or when leaving their port of origin, are fumigated to kill any bugs in the shipment. For non-organic coffee the fumigation process is pretty harsh. For organic produce an ozone fumigation process is SUPPOSED to be used but in most of the third-world ports, even in first-world ports, I question how diligent the stevedores are about using that process or even if it is affordable or sustainable for the third-worlders. When organic produce is in the same container as conventionally grown I'm not sure what the fumigators do. [Good point! I hadn't thought of that.] (Think about the guys actually doing the work, not how it is 'supposed to be done'.)

Ok, time to take my cynical self and go roast some [Organic? Fair Trade?] coffee.

Great post expat! Personally, as I get involved in purchasing coffee to roast, I wouldn't give a hoot about any of this. If it is good coffee and organic or fair trade, AND good enough/unique enough to justify the price, I'd buy it. If it is bad coffee, what would compel me to buy it? Let's say proceeds went to help starving children in third world countries; would I buy bad coffee to support a cause like this? Hell no...can't I just send some money and pass on the coffee? Likewise, why would I want to spend money on a good coffee, and pay more for it because someone says it's helping a cause, and there is no proof that it is doing anything other than lining the pockets of the people running the organization...just like a lot of high profile examples of NPO's whose CEO's earn million dollar salaries? Save me the grief...I'll just focus on buying good coffee, and donating to worthy organizations who are doing real work in coffee producing countries...such as Alex's (ensoluna) work with schools and families in Guatemala.

Again, great post expat!

Peaberry

 

[ensoluna]

Stay away from Organic coffee and do not buy them. Organic coffee industry is actually making coffee farmers poorer. My partner has personal experience in Guatemala and I also have seen and heard so many stories about this and I have the first hand experience in this since I have been visiting all different kinds of farms in last 5 weeks with customers.

Below article is from BIOLOGY FORTIFIED article by Lawrence Solomon (May 14, 2011)

…Conventional and organic-fairtrade certified coffee yields are more than 50% below national average, and yields from organic coffee on average are 43% lower. We assumed that organic coffee production involves lower expenditures for purchased inputs. This cannot be confirmed because total input costs do not differ significantly between the groups, although the mean input expenditures for organic and organic-fairtrade producers were lower than for conventional producers. Many of the organic production processes are more laborious as shown by the significant differences in total person-days per hectare in comparison to conventional production. The higher labor intensity was also frequently mentioned by farmers in the qualitative interviews.

One organic-fairtrade producer explained that “on the one hand, the organic [coffee] is [cheaper] because one spends less but as it was said there is more work, one has to work more because one has to make these compost heaps” (focus group interview, 16 April 2009

…The net income for the whole coffee area is highest for conventional farmers, followed by organic-fairtrade certified farmers and lowest for organic farmers.
That certified farmers do not have higher net coffee incomes for the whole coffee area and per capita can be explained by their higher labor requirements due to organic production, and thus costs,which offset saved input costs. This is especially relevant for organic-fairtrade producers compared to conventional farmers. That organic producers fare slightly worse than conventional farmers can be additionally explained by their smaller coffee area…

… Post-hoc tests show that organic farmers are relatively poorer than conventional farmers at p less than 0.05.

The classification of conventional, organic and organic-fairtrade certified households in the three poverty groups, poorest, less poor and least poor, shows that more organic and organic-fairtrade certified households are in the poorest group than conventional households….
…organic-fairtrade certified farmers are predominately found in the poorest poverty group. They are relatively poorer than conventional farmers .

 

[great8coffee]

These are very interesting point of views which I certainly would put my name under as well....the issue is how can you educate consumers about this miss leading situations? I am selling my coffee brand online and a lot of my customers "complain" about the lack of certifications (i have none) but I do direct farm trade as I buy my coffee directly from the farmers for higher prices, shouldn't that be more valuable then a bought certification?

 

[ensoluna]

Since every coffee giants are spending millions to "educate" consumers on the benefits of Organic, FTO...etc, it would be very tough for us small guys to educate them. but at least to our customers (in your case, your customers/consumers), we should try to let them know the truth as much as we could.

it is great that you are buying directly from farmers.
however, if the farm is big enough to sell directly to overseas customers, the owners of the farms are already very rich. and the extra money you pay will probably only go into the rich owner's pockets.

the people who really needs help are the workers and their families in the farm. Those people has fixed income (they get paid according to how much of weight they pick everyday) and in most of cases, their kids also have to help out the family to make the living, rather than spending their time at school learning something valuable.

so, it would be even nicer if you can find a way to help those workers directly.
BTW, please try to avoid those NGO because the majority of donation goes to their administration cost and salaries for the workers. I met so many NGO related workers in Guatemala (foreigners and Guatemalan) and they live rather very well.

 

[great8coffee]

Hi Ensoluna, thanks for the post. I am living in a coffee country, produce (roast) here and then sent it oversea by airfreight to sell online. So therefore I am not working with big farmers. I have setup a community around me over the past years to get the quality of coffee I need for my product. I try to get this massage across but it seems rather difficult. Also I had meetings with ControlUnion to become certified, but just the certification process would set me back 3K and I would have to change my suppliers or make them certified as well, which is another 3K per farmers / commune.....so rather expensive for what it's worth.

You see, I rely on this online business overseas, I do sell domestic as well but the amount payed oversea is just higher then the local market. Do you know of any let's say direct trade community in the states which I could participate?

 

[expat]

Great8, if you are living by web sales only then YOU CAN educate your customers. When customers come to your site, educate them.

On your home page put something -- a circle, a square, etc., and inside that put some kind of headline like 'Learn the Truth About Organic and Fairtrade Coffee' or 'How Fairtrade Coffee is Killing Coffee Farmers' or 'How Your Fairtrade Coffee Purchases are Ruining Farmer's Lives' or 'Have You Unwittingly Become Part of the Fairtrade Scam?' -- a provocative headline is what you want. Then make that pulse or have an arrow pointing to the box that flashes so that it is very eye-catching. (I recently read some research about a guy using a flashing arrow on his web page to draw attention to something and response went up 80% -- so it works.)

Your visitors click on the box and they are taken to a page where you can explain why you are concerned about fairtrade, UTZ, Rainforest, etc., and how you ensure the farmers you work with get a fair deal by buying direct and paying a good price for the coffee. Heck, you could even put the fairtrade price and your price right next to each other to show the facts.

Here's another really good article to read (post the link on your web page): http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/05/14/lawrence-solomon-fair-trade-coffee-producers-often-end-up-poorer/

And another: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-reasons-why-fair-trade-coffee-scam/

Here's a coffee forum link I started a long time back with great member comments: http://www.coffeeforums.com/forum/coffee-industry-forum/9575-fairtrade-coffee-really-fairly-traded-coffee.html

This is a fantastic article that backs up what Ensoluna posted: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0103/Organic-coffee-Why-Latin-America-s-farmers-are-abandoning-it
And another (which mainly sources the above article): https://croplife.org/case-study/organic-coffee-why-latin-americas-farmers-are-abandoning-it/

And here's a story about Starbuck's horn tooting on a hollow promise to help farmers: Follow your labels: Starbucks coffee farmers who never heard of Starbucks - CSMonitor.com

Here's Forbes magazine's take on things: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...oesnt-benefit-the-poor-peasants/#2eb037e31eac

When you put it all together it just turns your stomach at the level of 'truth manipulation' out there. But are you surprised?

 

[John P]

These types of certifications came about so the GIANT coffee purveyors looked as if they were peddling something other than swill to the masses. As it trickled down, the charlatans who are into "cause based" marketing tugged on the emotional gullibility of a large number of uninformed consumers.

Bad coffee. Bad ethics. Worthless Certifications.

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

The debate rages:

Huffington Post article: 10 Reasons Fair-Trade Coffee Doesn't Work

I'm also reading another article by Kimberly Ann Elliott from Center for Global Development that I won't share until I've personally read it, but all this was found by Googling "Is fair trade coffee really fair".

Peaberry

 

[mattmcdon8]

organic is very important to me, fair-trade is a booster

 

[Mr.Peaberry]

organic is very important to me, fair-trade is a booster

So what are your expectations when you pay a premium for organic/fair trade coffee? Would you feel differently if you had zero confidence your expectations were not being met?

 

[coffeeroastersclub]

It means absolutely nothing to me. I am a non believer. I think it is just another marketing ploy. And on a related venue, I really try not to think about the organic waste the 3rd world countries are dumping on their coffee orchards. Really try not to think about it.

Len