Probat vs. Diedrich

[MillCityRoasters]

I know waiting is frustrating, but bear in mind that these guys (USRC, Diedrich, etc.) get dozens of inquiries daily from all kinds of people asking all kinds of, often kooky, questions plus they have a production backlog as long as 4 months. Preparing a quote for August delivery may mean locking in prices and orders for fabricated parts many months in advance. You might be waiting for a quote simply because they haven't gotten numbers from a vendor yet. Or you may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

It's not a good excuse, but it can be a factor.

 

[elguapo]

I can attest to the poor customer support from Diedrich. I have been waiting a a price quote from Desirae (Sales dept) for over 2 weeks. Multiple phone calls and emails with no response. When I called, the gentlemen on the phone said that her assistant quit over the holidays. Still disappointing that Diedrich has no interest in the small coffee roaster. Seems like every roaster must start somewhere but Diedrich has no interests in the small guy. I was able to talk with Dan from Us Roasters and Mike from San Franciscan within one day of calling.

For what it's worth, I spoke with Desirae last week and she was extremely helpful (I was actually trying to get in touch with the assistant who quit). I had a ton of questions and she didn't seem to blow me off or try to rush me - and we are by no means a big company.

But, I also have a lot of follow up questions, so we'll see if I can get her on the phone again, maybe I got lucky. I'll post what happens...

 

[elguapo]

I know waiting is frustrating, but bear in mind that these guys (USRC, Diedrich, etc.) get dozens of inquiries daily from all kinds of people asking all kinds of, often kooky, questions plus they have a production backlog as long as 4 months. Preparing a quote for August delivery may mean locking in prices and orders for fabricated parts many months in advance. You might be waiting for a quote simply because they haven't gotten numbers from a vendor yet. Or you may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

It's not a good excuse, but it can be a factor.

Diedrich and Probat were both quick to quote me a price (sadly, Probat's jumped $5k since my last quote in November - they said they only raise prices every 5 years or so, unlucky timing). Probat said they had a 3 month lead time, Diedrich said 3 is their normal lead, but they have gotten a lot of orders and are now more like 3.5 months.

 

[elguapo]

CHAFF COLLECTOR QUESTION:

Does anyone who has used a Diedrich (specifically 12k) know about their internal chaff collector and it's effectiveness? Probat comes with an external chaff can, but Diedrich is only internal. My experience with internal chaff collectors on an Ambex is terrible and we needed to get an external one.

Does the Diedrich internal collector work well (actually collect)? Is it large enough to roast all day or will we be cleaning every couple hours (I realize this could be hard to answer because bean chaff can vary, but lets just say an average chaffy bean).

 

[KeepItTidy]

CHAFF COLLECTOR QUESTION:

Does anyone who has used a Diedrich (specifically 12k) know about their internal chaff collector and it's effectiveness? Probat comes with an external chaff can, but Diedrich is only internal. My experience with internal chaff collectors on an Ambex is terrible and we needed to get an external one.

Does the Diedrich internal collector work well (actually collect)? Is it large enough to roast all day or will we be cleaning every couple hours (I realize this could be hard to answer because bean chaff can vary, but lets just say an average chaffy bean).

The more often you vaccum it clean , the less risk of a fire!
I clean after around 6-10 roasts, You cant do many more without cleaning first.

 

[jamestooill]

To echo the path of the entire thread... I've had both good and bad customer service experiences with Diedrich. Good in '09. Bad in '10. Good in '14 and then fair to middling again in '15. Also had alternately charming and frustrating experience with USRC.

I hear this often and I truly have never experienced that Diedrichs make coffee more caramelly but less bright. I like my coffee to be quite high in acidity and absolutely love roasting on a Diedrich.

 

[sae]

I truly have never experienced that Diedrichs make coffee more caramelly but less bright. I like my coffee to be quite high in acidity and absolutely love roasting on a Diedrich.

do you find that you have to do a small batch size to get a really light lively roast? With a full batch what is your time to first cracked?

 

[jamestooill]

do you find that you have to do a small batch size to get a really light lively roast? With a full batch what is your time to first cracked?

The largest batch size we do is 80 lbs. in a 50 Kilo. So that's about 73% of stated capacity. When I was on a little 3 kilo results were always better at 5 lbs. batch and no larger, which is again about 75% capacity. And when we're on the 1 kilo diedrich we're between 600 and 750 grams. So that may be a small batch by some standards, but for us it's just normal.

We are often getting to first crack with dense coffees at light roast levels between 7:50 and 8:30. I realize that's a bit quicker than many will report for Diedrichs. But getting there in that frame for harder beans always cups out for us.

Have you spent much time roasting on Diedrichs? Sounds like you've gone down in batch size yourself to get to first crack faster.

 

[sae]

75% is actually pretty good. I've talked to a few people and they say that they have to be at 10lbs in a 12kilo to get first crack under 10:00. I've never personally roasted on a Diedrich only on open flame probat style roasters

 

[Amhas]

75% is actually pretty good. I've talked to a few people and they say that they have to be at 10lbs in a 12kilo to get first crack under 10:00. I've never personally roasted on a Diedrich only on open flame probat style roasters

I find that a bit hard to believe. I don't have a 12k roaster I only have a 1k machine but I can run my IR1 at 82-85% and hit 1st crack right around 9 minutes, if I plan it right. With the Ethiopia I can do that with a charge temp of 360 but on the Sumatra I have to bump that up a bit. I'm not saying that happens every time, but I have yet to exceed 10 minutes and I have can get to 1stC just past 8 minutes if I want. :images:

 

[sae]

@Amhas: How old is your roaster? I have heard that Diedrich increased the BTUs in the past few years (not sure exactly when this supposedly happened)

 

[Amhas]

@Amhas: How old is your roaster? I have heard that Diedrich increased the BTUs in the past few years (not sure exactly when this supposedly happened)

My roaster was built just late last year (2014).
I'm still gaining experience with it but so far but it seems to have enough power. When I have it 85% of capacity I have had to push outer edge of the system limits (although just briefly), but with only one bean in particular (a Sumatra). I've never filled it to 100% of stated capacity as it seems to roast best (easier to control) some where between 60 - 80% of capacity.

 

[thepilgrimsdream]

Do steel and iron drums conduct heat at different rates? I would think that the faster conduction would be more prone to scorching/tipping

From looking at profiles and talking to local roasters, it seems common to drop a batch in 12 minutes or under on a probat, where on a diedrich it takes closer 14 minutes, but I know everyone's roast style is different, I just had a natural assumption that the probats roasts tend to be more bright cause of the faster roast time.

 

[6644hudson]

Trident Booksellers and Cafe has been roasting on a 1986 Probat L5 since 2002, without incident. We bought it from a roaster in Chicago who was going bigger and had it shipped to Nova Scotia. We re-set the limits to their original specs, [why try to run one of these on speed, really?] installed a thermocouple and changed it out for propane tips. My experience with the Probat service people has been varied over the years, but better in the last eight. Those guys would like us to buy a new roaster but they'll still help you get the parts for their well-built older beauties if you show patience. This L5 has been producing great coffee for our cafe and customers for fifteen years, with only occasional hiccups. The original advice I got from CoffeeTec in Redwood City was to keep it clean clean clean without fail. It lost a cooling paddle as soon as it arrived so we've used foil over that hole and still get the five-minute cooling with no problem. I've never had experience with Dierdrich products but I'm sure they're excellent. Don't know how many L5's there are left working in the world in 2015, but for Lola [her name from the beginning] this is a testimonial and love-letter to a rock-solid design and her dimpled nickle mantle. Made in Emmerich en Rhine.

 

[PinkRose]

Don't know how many L5's there are left working in the world in 2015, but for Lola [her name from the beginning] this is a testimonial and love-letter to a rock-solid design and her dimpled nickle mantle. Made in Emmerich en Rhine.

I find it extremely interesting that you named your roaster Lola. Now, I'm wondering if any of our other Forum members have given their roaster a name. (or maybe their espresso machines?).