Extraction Time Question

[topher]

I have to agree...the difference between 16 seconds and 24 is tiny! The shop I was at before here would knock out some volume...slow days we where doing an average of $4000 ....record day being $16000...the wait on drinks was not bad at all..by the time they ordered their drink and walked to the pick up area it was usually done in a matter of seconds.

 

[Coffee Guy]

I agree BT. I'm always open to learning new things, as I remain open minded. However, I don't agree with this "I may not always be right, but I'm never wrong" attitude we are displaying here. I agree, this is a forum for learning, but also keep in mind that we all have our opinions, and I respectfully welcome the differences in each of our positions. But let there be no mistake in thinking that I will not call those to the table if I disagree with their posts. One being your assumption of sacrifing quality drinks from a drive thru. Additionally, quickness and convenience is the key to the drive thru operation as well as the quality of the drink. I won't address the issue of traffic differences and vehicle line ups in the mornings where quickness and effiecency counts. Unfortunately customers don't come through a drive thru for the art :wink:

 

[BaristaTrainer]

"Because in the drive thru world where everything has to be done quicker, we had to adapt. Whereas, if you are going into a cafe setting or a cart you can take the time to pull the longer shots ..." - Coffee Guy

was just replying from one of your posts ...

I have been a trainer for the last 11 years ... and am more than happy to share my knowledge with anyone on this bored, and yes I too respect people "opinions".

I just feel that in this industry we should all strive for perfection!

 

[javahill]

There is more than one way to shorten the time through a window at a drive through. If the demand on a location is so great that 10 seconds per shot makes a difference... here are some options

using a 2 or more group head machine, start brewing a shot as soon as one car pulls out and the next car starts to advance. That way you get off a shot before you see the whites of their eyes.

brew shots ahead of time and keep them warm under a heat lamp, just like they do burgers at McDonalds. If the point is speed, disconnect the brewing from the serving completely.

Brew a whole lot of shots and keep them in an airpot. Just pump them out like ketchup or hot fudge. Practice your hissing sounds or get a digital sounds effects machine triggered by a photo electric cell. And put a fan blowing coffee smell out into the air so the customers get a hit when they unroll their window.

With appologies to Paul Simon, when it comes to espresso, there are 50 ways to leave your lever.
Just prepull the shot, Dot.
Jump the gun, son.
No need for on-demand, Stan
Just don't pull one for me.

 

[topher]

Here is the question then....will people pay for crap that is quick or will they pay for quality...personally I would wait the extra 10 seconds...how many windows does your place have coffeeguy? I assume you can drive up to either side of the building....just curious

 

[espressomaniac]

grrr......

Ok, mc espresso is NOT the way to go, if they want fast food, they should bite down on a couple of espresso truffles, or what ever incarnation it has became these days and omit the drive thru experience all together, the prepour or shots in a vat approach is the most ludicras suggestion I've ever heard and can only be mentioned by one completely new to this industry. Yes, it sounds logical from the outside, but only if you don't take into account the basic variables of the nature of espresso in general.

Topher, from the drive thru I visited literally right in front of coffee guys roaster facility, there is only one window.

 

[topher]

I think he was being sarcastic...I hope he was....

 

[javahill]

Next time I'm being flippant, I'll use one of these :-D

 

[javahill]

In fact, I'm not new to the industry. But I am yanking your chain. Lighten up everyone. It's only espresso. :-D

 

[Coffee Guy]

Wow!!! I'm having fun now Actually our place is double sided, but on one side we can only stack 2 cars legally, and the other side only 3. We are actually going to rebuild that spot. But the City has been such a pain in the ass for the last few years on new construction that it's just taken a little longer. They tried to pass some stupid measure that they wanted to make the street narrower and remove the middle turn lane. Well I'm happy to say the other business owners in the area along with us fought it tooth and nail and it didn't pass. Just the same, they are taking their dear, sweet, *&^%#$ time with our permits, etc.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that longer shots are not good, far from it, I'm just saying you can get good espresso from a shorter pull time...In fact as espressomaniac says he has been to our drive thru and tried our coffee. Espressomaniac can you share your thoughts with everyone? And tell them what you really think

 

[Guest]

The perfect shot of Espresso:

The perfect shot of Espresso:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Use 7-9 Grams of Ground Coffee (Arabica Coffee Beans are Recommended for Espresso)

1 oz of Water

Brewing Time: 28-30 Seconds

Very Fine Grind

The water temperature should be around 195-200 degrees F

Water Pressure should be at 8-10 bars. (140 pounds / square inch)

*** Driving out the oils from grounds is what actually makes a proper espresso. This can only be done using an Espresso Machine. If oils are not extracted properly, all you have is brewed coffee.

About 20% of Grinds should extract and come out along with the hot water. The rest of the grinds should not be used for a second shot; because on the 2nd and 3rd shot, you will only extract bad grinds, which causes poor flavor.

Another thing to keep in mind is that an espresso must flow out like warm honey, and you should immediately start to see the cream pour out at the top of an espresso shot.

Crema is a good sign that you have a PROPER espresso. Crema also attaches to the taste buds, which provides long after-taste.

 

[espressomaniac]

hey

Coffee Guy, I didn't notice as much as I did obviously, I just noticed all of the traffic coming in from the right, the drive thru itself will make some nice land fill very soon..,,hehe., not knocking it, but, mannn, it's so bad, thank god for grandfathered set ups,hehe. I just gotta give you crap over it knowing I can't make a crack at it in a few weeks when you have your high tech, all steel drive through building, then, of course, I'll have to come back to scrub the floors or something, hehe.

Anyway, your barrista was very friendly, proffessional and dedicated, I watched her handle clients eloquently and I'm sure, par for the course with the rest of your staff. You and I chatted so long I actually got in trouble over it because my g/f and her kid were dropped off at her mothers house 6 blocks away before I hit your shop and she wanted to go to bed so I got a major hassle about it. I can tell you have a passion for this industry and are very happy to chat coffee pretty much at all times.

 

[phaelon56]

If your drive thru is like many shops here in the Northeast (and elsewhere for that matter) might I presume that you're doing almost all milk drinks for the espresso that's ordered?

The place where I started workign part time recently is designed to handle volume fast but we do it by using a four group machine and a Swift auto-dosing auto-tamping grinder. It does not and never will do as good a job of tamping as a well trained barista will but we get consistently good shots (never spectacular but nearly always very good).

We lock and load the shot on the Swift, hit the doser button on the four group and then start frothing (the milk having been poured while the grinder was dosing and tamping the shot). In the 27 seconds that the shot is being pulled the milk gets frothed. I'd hazard a guess that this system is as fast as manual tamping and using a 16 second shot but very likely delivers better results.

An added benefit of the Swift that offsets its price is the savings in coffee. Ours paid for itself in about a year due to the reduce tamping waste. Again .... no claims that it's better than good manual tamping but it's sure worth considering when speed is important in any operation, even a small one.

 

[Coffee Guy]

Hey phaelon56:

Yeah...most are milk based drinks :lol: . We have a 3 group in our location and the ladies work it to perfection...my hat's off to them, they keep it going. We have a well-tested routine that concentrates on quality and consistancy, while doing everything in a timely manner.

I've seen those grinders and they look quite impressive. The savings on coffee and less waste is always good.

We're always interested in learning as well as teaching. We've been Blessed for over 10 years by following the same routine. Although we do tweak every now and then when new things are discovered .

 

[topher]

Phew...phaelon56 I am glad you wrote that...I have used the swift grinders a couple of times...didn't like it. You are the first person who has said that it does o.k. everyone else swear by them....call my old fashioned but I like to tamp my own coffee... :wink: