Good quality espresso maker on a budget??

[idrinkcoffee2011]

Anyone found a good one? Recommendation?

I casually browse around and seen some like $100,$300,$600. geez….I’m not willing to pay that kinda money for espresso now, not even sure if it’s worth it.

But I read a review on a site saying Moka pot is an inexpensive way to get espresso . Anyone used one here and can comment. I haven’t gotten one yet but thinking about it.




I been just relying on cafes like Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds for the time being for espresso. I tried lattes and just normal coffee. The latte’s just much more in buzz than the regular coffee. Even if I did light roast Arabica beans, it just not as high buzz as a latte.

I experimented with brewing coffee different ways, even if I put in more grounds and same amount of recommended water, it does not turn out well and the buzz is bad and no good.

Tried it with french press, I just don’t have the right tool. There just somethings with the pressure and concentration elements you can’t produce without an espresso maker it seems.

 

[peterjschmidt]

I been just relying on cafes like Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds for the time being for espresso. I tried lattes and just normal coffee. The latte’s just much more in buzz than the regular coffee. Even if I did light roast Arabica beans, it just not as high buzz as a latte.

If you're relying on cafes like Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds for espresso, then it's doubtful that you know much about espresso. Sorry.

 

[idrinkcoffee2011]

If you're relying on cafes like Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds for espresso, then it's doubtful that you know much about espresso. Sorry.

well if you don't know an espresso maker, what are you suppose to do ? seems like you like to knock people down instead of providing helpful information. guess that your attitude, always folks like that eh?

would i be asking if i had the answer? well if people are not sincere, they are not. *shrugs* what can i say?

 

[peterjschmidt]

Well... I could have worded it differently... like this... you evidently haven't had real espresso, let alone very good espresso, so why are you looking for a machine that will make it? It sounds like you're trying to recreate something that DD and McD serve, correct? If that's your target, that's a different question. If you live near a reputable cafe that has good equipment, good coffee, and good barista skills, then you can visit there and see if you even like genuine espresso.

Why is telling someone the truth 'knocking them down'? I was simply saying you don't know what you're asking for.

 

[idrinkcoffee2011]

ok forget what i said before then. you could've just contrast your experiences between an espresso and a normal coffee. and talk about your experience with like $600 espresso machine if that the kind of high-end machine you have. and let me know how your moka pot experiences have been.

i think i implied that my brew coffee experiences hasn't been good...

 

[BoldJava]

Anyone found a good one? Recommendation?
...

But I read a review on a site saying Moka pot is an inexpensive way to get espresso . Anyone used one here and can comment. I haven’t gotten one yet but thinking about it.

I began much of my coffee journey on moka pots. Inexpensive, easy. Now, I don't care for them. Creates a very murky cup and loses the best qualities of a good cup. You couldn't give me one at this point.

Moka pots do not make espresso (nor do inexpensive "espresso" makers -- realy steam toys --that you see advertised). Espresso requires a 9-bar atmospheric pressure (created by a pump or lever, not steam) to create the cup. Moka pots do not achieve that. Expect to spend $1000 for an entry point to obtain an espresso maker, in addition to a $500 grinder. Then, the learning begins. Moka pots do not achieve that pressure and use instead, steam to extract the coffee.

I been just relying on cafes like Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds for the time being for espresso. I tried lattes and just normal coffee. The latte’s just much more in buzz than the regular coffee. Even if I did light roast Arabica beans, it just not as high buzz as a latte.

DD and McD's are low quality arabica blends. DD may have robusta in there as well -- they don't publicize mix which they term a "secret." That alone sets an alarm for me. Both over-roasted to provide a roast dominant cup, rather than present an individual coffee with characteristics or nuances of the seed. You might be satisfied with a moka pot if you enjoy DD and McD.

You have similar posts on other boards this morning, discussing "buzz." Netiquette suggests sticking to one board until that board provides or doesn't provide adequate information to your question.

Robusta beans are higher in caffeine than arabica. You will find that high-end coffee shops focus on arabic and the high quality of the beans, not the caffeine-induced stimulation. If the stimulation is that which you seek, just buy some caffeine tablets at any drug store.

I just don’t have the right tool. There just somethings with the pressure and concentration elements you can’t produce without an espresso maker it seems.

You are correct.

P.S. You really don't want to know how much my budd Peter spent for his espresso machine <very wide grin>. You would flee the forum!

 

[idrinkcoffee2011]

P.S. You really don't want to know how much my budd Peter spent for his espresso machine <very wide grin>. You would flee the forum!

no its ok i understand there are a lot of rich folks with lots of money to burn while there are children starving somewhere on the planet. and it make me selfish trying to take my mind to the next level when some people have barely enough to eat. :twisted:

 

[peterjschmidt]

no its ok i understand there are a lot of rich folks with lots of money to burn while there are children starving somewhere on the planet. and it make me selfish trying to take my mind to the next level when some people have barely enough to eat. :twisted:

If that wasn't so sad, your post would be funny.

 

[PinkRose]

If you live near a reputable cafe that has good equipment, good coffee, and good barista skills, then you can visit there and see if you even like genuine espresso.

I have to agree with Peter. Find a reputable cafe and order a shot of espresso, and see if you really like it.

In this thread and a couple of others, you mention that you're looking for a "buzz" and taking your mind "to the next level" (I'm not sure what you mean by that).

I have a feeling you're not very interested in how the espresso tastes. Why spend money on a good espresso machine when you're only looking for a buzz?

 

[Coffeefix]

So does an exchange of views like this encourage anyone to ask if there's a decent budget machine???

I also wouldn't expect great coffee from a lot of multi-national companies but lets be fair, they sell a lot of coffee and I have been surprised at times.
I play about with many different machines at work, the latest high end Italian stuff, Marzocco, Rancilio, Astoria...with PID systems and more trying different coffees each day. I was also surprised once by an espresso made by a friend in their kitchen with a £100 machine (sorry, don't remember the name).
Lets also remember that playing around with expensive single variety arabicas and an espresso machine often produces a pretty fruity espresso that wouldn't appeal much to the average Italian. The Italians generally prefer a mix of different arabica beans each chosen for its particular character with an often high percentage of robusta added to the blend.
Robusta is higher in caffeine and its oils help out with the espresso crema and some robustas have a degree of character that might surprise too. When one rides about on a high horse telling people that you couldn't drink coffee made with robusta then bear in mind that you have one hell of a lot of people to convince - Try starting in Italy.

PS. There's an awful lot of Moka pots in use there too...

PPS. 9 bar for most commercial machines yes, commercial lever machines? No. The lever, when pulled down raises a piston and compresses a great big spring. Water floods though from the (too hot for some) boiler at around 1 bar, pre-infusing the coffee. When the espresso starts to drip OR when your sixth Barista sense tells you, the lever is released and the spring takes over, pushing the water down through the coffee with the piston.
In common with most springs, the pressure provided by the spring is high at first but reduces as the spring extends to its original length. Quite a different process to a rotary pump that thumps 9 bar at the coffee all the time (very debatable too).

If you buy a cheap machine and it works, great, well done.
If you find that you like Robusta, great, lots of people do - knock yourself out but don't pay too much for it.

 

[BoldJava]

...

PPS. 9 bar for most commercial machines yes, commercial lever machines? No. The lever...

That was my response and I own a Cremina lever. Lots of good discussion out there about how much pressure exists with a lever. Regardless of number, it is using pressured water, rather than steam like inexpensive "espresso machines" or moka pots.

Here is HB's take: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-machines.html

 

[peterjschmidt]

When one rides about on a high horse telling people that you couldn't drink coffee made with robusta then bear in mind that you have one hell of a lot of people to convince - Try starting in Italy.

I don't think anyone has said stay away from robusta, just that there aren't many that are good on their own.

 

[BoldJava]

I don't think anyone has said stay away from robusta, just that there aren't many that are good on their own.

No one said that. Italian is typically 5-10% robusta for the crema. Peter and I have cupped a R-certified robusta from India that was good in a press pot with half and half. I personally didn't care for the zip in it, even though it didn't resemble most low grown robusta.

 

[idrinkcoffee2011]

So does an exchange of views like this encourage anyone to ask if there's a decent budget machine???

I also wouldn't expect great coffee from a lot of multi-national companies but lets be fair, they sell a lot of coffee and I have been surprised at times.
I play about with many different machines at work, the latest high end Italian stuff, Marzocco, Rancilio, Astoria...with PID systems and more trying different coffees each day. I was also surprised once by an espresso made by a friend in their kitchen with a £100 machine (sorry, don't remember the name).
Lets also remember that playing around with expensive single variety arabicas and an espresso machine often produces a pretty fruity espresso that wouldn't appeal much to the average Italian. The Italians generally prefer a mix of different arabica beans each chosen for its particular character with an often high percentage of robusta added to the blend.
Robusta is higher in caffeine and its oils help out with the espresso crema and some robustas have a degree of character that might surprise too. When one rides about on a high horse telling people that you couldn't drink coffee made with robusta then bear in mind that you have one hell of a lot of people to convince - Try starting in Italy.

PS. There's an awful lot of Moka pots in use there too...

PPS. 9 bar for most commercial machines yes, commercial lever machines? No. The lever, when pulled down raises a piston and compresses a great big spring. Water floods though from the (too hot for some) boiler at around 1 bar, pre-infusing the coffee. When the espresso starts to drip OR when your sixth Barista sense tells you, the lever is released and the spring takes over, pushing the water down through the coffee with the piston.
In common with most springs, the pressure provided by the spring is high at first but reduces as the spring extends to its original length. Quite a different process to a rotary pump that thumps 9 bar at the coffee all the time (very debatable too).

If you buy a cheap machine and it works, great, well done.
If you find that you like Robusta, great, lots of people do - knock yourself out but don't pay too much for it.

nice post on italians and moka pots. i think moka pot and espresso is part of the culture there.

 

[Coffeefix]

That was my response and I own a Cremina lever. Lots of good discussion out there about how much pressure exists with a lever. Regardless of number, it is using pressured water, rather than steam like inexpensive "espresso machines" or moka pots.

Here is HB's take: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-machines.html

Mr Hoffmann has put a lot of thought into that...
Lever groups have been around a long time, fortunately they are making a bit of a comeback it seems.
It's easy to think that the latest pressure profiling, efficient, twin boiler, sensor controlled machines are a great step forward (they are mostly), however, the more I experiment with lever groups the more I think that the people who designed them back in the day knew what they were doing! Simple design that is very effective.
Once you have figured out how to set a grinder to suit them you'll be surprised at the shots you pull.
Personally, I think the time for a modern lever group machine has come - there are a few things I think could be improved?