just getting into the roasting business

[jimbo]

OK, so some of you may want to role your eyes at my question, or maybe worse.
Basically, I am planning on opening a wholesale/retail coffee roasting business with no experience roasting beans. I have done some research on it and talked to some one who owned a roasting business. What I am gathering from my research is that roasting coffee is fairly straight forward. Trial and error and meticulous note keeping on the roasting profiles, and you can come up with a few decent roasts to sell to the public and other businesses. So after a couple of months I should have a small line of beans to sell. I am thinking four or five to start off, plus a decaf. Get that going and then grow from there and come up with my own blends and what not. I also realize that there is a whole other side to it, when you are blending and buying beans directly from the farms. That is where the art and years of experience comes in.
So my question is this, am I wrong about the learning curve and viability of operating a roasting business and learn as I go?
Any and all sincere comments based on personal experience will be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[DirtyDave]

I really recommend you think a bit more about your plans.
Roasting coffee IS NOT straightforward.
Running a business is not straightforward.
Think about working for an existing roaster for at least a couple of years, at least.
You won't even know what's important to learn, in the first few months.
You may be the roasting prodigy the world has waited for, but more likely, you'll prove to be another drop-out from the school of hard knocks.
I wish you good luck, whatever you choose to do.

 

[jimbo]

Thanks for the frank response Dirty Dave. I would work for a roaster and get some OTJ training, but there are none in my area. The closest one is 4 hrs away. I am looking into some roasting schools. Hopefully they can give me a good foundation of knowlege. Hopefully they aren't a waste of money.
Thanks again.
Jim.

 

[topher]

Where are you located? Maybe we can point you towards someone.

 

[scottryan]

Interested Also.

I am also interested in roasting. I have been home roasting for around 6mos now and have had people offer to buy my coffee. I would feel better having some more knowledge before selling it. I am located in West Michigan about 3 hrs north of Chicago. Any direction would be helpful. thanks
scott

 

[DirtyDave]

How are you roasting your coffee at home?
Popcorn popper, frying pan, Hottop, iRoast?
Everyone has to start somewhere.
But roasting in larger batches is a horse of a different color.
Then there's the business aspects........
It's a big step up from roasting 80 - 100 grams at a time.

 

[scottryan]

I have been roasting in a popcorn popper about a cup or so at a time. I am in the works of roasting with a bread maker and heat gun. I should be able to roast 1-2lbs then. My thought was to sell in two sizes 6 and 12 ounces. Any good websites for roasting training? I do good with videos. Do you know of any suppliers where you can buy 25-50lb bags from at a good price?
I am not planning on quitting my job today, but having a job that you are doing something you enjoy fascinates me and is something I want to give a shot.

 

[DirtyDave]

Here's some (I think) good advice.
Roasting with hot air looks really easy, but it isn't.
In order to do a proper, controlled roast, you need to modulate the temperature of the air that is roasting the beans.
NEVER expose the beans to greater than 450 degs F until the temperature of the beans themselves is greater than 300 degs F.
Once the beans have expelled most of their moisture (over 300 degs), never expose them to air greater than 540 degs F.
So, you need two temperature sensors (J type thermocouples, "grounded"), and two temperature read-outs/controllers.
Don't make your life difficult, get this stuff sorted out first.
With these strictures, you'll be able to do repeatable profiles and be roasting coffee that you (and your customers) will really like
Good luck

 

[scottryan]

Thanks for the reply. Do you have a good website for purchasing the sensors and controllers? Thanks again for your input it is appreciated.
scott

 

[jimbo]

So Dirty Dave, and any one else who wishes to reply, if I shell out the $1500 to $2500 for a roasting course, (the more expensive one also covers the business end as well,) and get that hands on professional training, would that be about the same as working for a roaster for a year or two? I don't expect to be landing major clients for a while, and I may even take a lesson from Lachris and start off at farmers markets and such, to build the name and following first, while I try and perfect my roasts and develop a line of beans. I may have misspoken when I said it was straight forward. I don't equate straight forward with easy or simple. What I was thinking and meaning is that there are certain variables and parameters that one needs to control to roast a decent coffee, those being air flow, timing and flame. And I was figuring that when a person is taught the basics of those three things, they could experiment, record their experiments and improve on them and in a short while, be able to produce a decent roasted coffee that locals would enjoy.
I am going in to talk to a professional roaster tomorrow. hopefully seeing him at work and talking to him will shed a little more light on this.
The last thing I want to be is a drop out from the school of hard knocks.

 

[DirtyDave]

Just my personal opinion.........
Working with an experienced roaster makes allot more sense than going to a school.
But if it is your only option, by all means, do it.
Good luck.

 

[ACRM]

Hi Jimbo,

I was in exactly the same situation as you six years ago but I was lucky enough to have a local roaster who, when I asked him if he would mind showing me the basics of roasting, said that there was nothing in it for him but an old roaster had showed him the basics 30 years ago and would do the same for me. Fabio at the Queen Victoria Market in Melbourne Australia. What a man!

Roasting coffee is both extremely basic and black magic. If you actually know what good coffee tastes like to start with, producing some drinkable coffee that is superior to all/most off the shelf coffee is straightforward and you can acquire the knowledge for that pretty much from reading. Consistently producing hundreds/thousands of pounds that will meet your own ever higher standards takes years and the learning never stops.

As you are going to be investing tens of thousands of dollars in time and equipment it makes some sense to consider jumping a plane and heading to a roaster who will share his/her knowledge with you. At current bean prices you don't have to ruin many pounds to make up an air fare to anywhere in the US or Europe for that matter. We always tell our new roasting customers to visit us for at least a day to spend time with our chief roaster. We don't give away profiles but we do love the idea of other people not having to go through the angst we did!

Finally. Don't be intimidated by anyone's so called superior knowledge until you've tasted their coffee. There's still a lot of sizzle and not that much steak out there. Get you hands on a copy of Andreas Illy's book. It's mostly science but it consistently confirms that the base knowledge of the science behind coffee is still very much in its infancy. And, don't make the mistake of thinking that if you buy a Ferrari you'll be an instant formula 1 driver. Like every other industrial art - it's the man not the machine.

Burn it. Bag it and Drag it!

Rowan

 

[jimbo]

Thanks Dirty Dave and ACRM for your input and advice. I would definitely prefer to learn from some one who is a master at their trade, imparting a lifetime of experience on me. No doubt that would be a better way to go. But I may have to take a different path and hopefully figure some things out on my own or through this forum. I have located a diedrich IR7 that I think I am going to make an offer on. It sounds like a solid machine, only it does not have a bean probe. Hope this will not make it too difficult to develop or stick to profiles. I have also found a probat L5 just 25 miles away! but he wants more than twice what I will pay for the diedrich. At this point I think it would be a wiser choice to go with the smaller investment.
Thanks again for your responses.
Jim

 

[Fireball1234]

I too am new to coffee business. I have done home roasting and love it. I too am going to go to a coffee school by the end of this year. There is one in Seattle that looks great. One class for "Business" and one for "roasting". There is another in San Diego I am thinking of going to.

But, and I give this advice to you as well as myself. I think you (we) first need to buy different coffee beans with different roasts to let us know what is selling, what "good coffee" tastes like. When buying beans, the salesmen are more than helpful to "train your pallet" for the price of a pound of beans

I sorta think of this like I am going into a "chocolate chip cookie business". If the only recipe of cookie I have ever tried is my grandmother's..... It is a toss up if I will have customers who like that cookie too. BUT, if I tour and taste all the different chock chip cookies out there (size, shape, moist/crunchy) I would know 1. what my competitors are doing, and 2. what is selling. 3. if there is a need for one More chock chip cookie

Go to coffee bean stores , pick their brains first. ( they probably went to the coffee school you are thinking of going)

As for Roasting Machines, I saw one I think I will buy. I am going to buy directly from China, from the manufacturer. -- anyone's input about this is welcome

 

[scottryan]

Roaster

What is the name of the roaster? Do you have a link? Price? At the moment I am looking at roasters also and would like to hear what your going with and why.
scott