Looking for opinions on the Probat P12/2 vs Diedrich IR-12

[Mugzi]

Hello friends,

I'm a active reader and first time poster looking for opinions and advice on the probat p12/2 vs the diedrich ir-12 with automation. I'm opening a shop and planning to roast and those are the two roasters I'm between. I'd love to hear about experiences from those who have roasted on both and can compare similar roasts from both to get a good idea of the pros vs cons of both roasters. Looking forward to hearing your opinions and advice and thanks to all in advance.

 

[derek.peris]

That is a very interesting topic.
I too would be an interested reader if someone cares to share experience on these roasters.
Thanks,

 

[Musicphan]

I have no real experience with either... a touch with the IR12. What is the criteria that lead you to those two? Did you consider the San Franciscan? Others?

 

[Mugzi]

I have no real experience with either... a touch with the IR12. What is the criteria that lead you to those two? Did you consider the San Franciscan? Others?

I've considered all of the popular brands that all kinda fell off the list for various reasons. Examples giesen the sales rep here in the states was completely oblivious to the roaster he's selling making me feel like support will eventually be an issue. San Franciscan has yet to contact me back with us reaching out twice also making me nervous in terms of support. Loring was too expensive out the gate and very take it or leave it in their approach to sales with no financing options whatsoever. At the end what made me narrow down those 2 roasters was the sales staff, their knowledge of their roasters and a decent selection of financing options. What pushed me to diedrich was it's abilities to be fully automatic because while I'm going out to train with world champions I wont likely always be there to run the roast and need to be able to have a machine that's at least slightly idiot-proof. What made me pump the breaks on diedrich was the cost of the afterburner being almost the same as the roaster itself. What I liked about probat was their experience in the industry and their hands on approach to sales, install and support. Why I pumped the brakes on them was the roaster being almost completely manual and the cost of the roasters accessories like a bean lifter. This would mean I would need someone very experienced who learned from me to roast not to botch batches and would limit me to having to choose someone with some upper body strength to load the hopper over their head or the liability on a step stool that a shorter person or weaker person would need to use to load said hopper. I haven't completely ruled out the San Franciscan sf-25 and would also love to hear experiences with it as well as some input on its level of automation and accessories available. Either way thank you for commenting

 

[wmark]

I own a P2-12 but have roasted on my friendsIR12........well, not really roasting as I watched as it automatically roasted. I charged and dropped.

Both roasters have their fans. FYI Probat is more or less automatic in that you only have to load the beans and dump the beans. As of this year, they also have a variable speed exhaust fan. I have had some minor issues with Probat (some of their components have been contracted out) but they were quick to rectify, no questions asked. That said, I have heard lots of gripes about all the companies and the quality of their customer service.

I do like the taste of some of the coffee roasted on the Diedrich but I assume that it is because I have not mastered the variable speed exhaust fan whereas my friend has tried and true roast profiles on his Diedrich.

One thing I did hear from others is that they like the build quality of the Probat more than that of the Diedrich.....and I like the power burner on the Probat and the ability to control exactly the flame percentage

I understand Mill City Roasters is quite good for customer service, i don't know about their machines, though I have roasted on one. They offer more standard options.

 

[jobs]

Hi
Pleas can i have a training or manual (pdf or video) for IMF RM -240 KG .

 

[Musicphan]

That helps me understand your position... I was in the same boat about 3 years ago. I purchased a USRC 12K... while I'm happy with the roaster I find it has some shortcomings and probably would choose a different route. First thing, i know you didn't discuss sizing but are you going to be primarily roasting for your shop or does your business plan include wholesale sales? I found my 12K WAY to big for the first year... and I'm just now in year 2.5 using it's capacity. I only mention this because that may bring those more expensive machines into the picture.

Giesen - I shared the same experience... I spoke to several roasters that were happy with them but I never could get them to engage. Same situation with Probat... multiple emails and calls with no response. In retrospect I wish I would have been more diligent but I complete get your concern with SF since it sounds like you had a similar experience to mine with Giesen/Probat. A peer just purchased a p12/2 but has yet to install it... if that happens in the next few weeks and I can make it to his shop I'll elaborate on my experience. Another friend/peer just became a Probat partner.. the fact he invested with this company speaks volumes to me... he is a 20+ year industry veteran, now a consultant. From what I gather the newer P12/2 are rock solid. There are LOTS of Diedrich's in our market.. I don't know if its the roaster or the machine but I find most produce brighter roasts. Everyone that has one seems to be happy with the decision. Lorings are bad-ass but they come at a price... I mentioned the question about sizing earlier due to the fact they introduced the smaller unit - it seems to hit a nice sweet spot. In the past (3 years ago) they did offer financing and from my understanding they still offer but that may have changed. The automation on the Lorings is AMAZING.. and since the Lorings don't have emissions issues they are great for areas that are dense with people or if your local gov't pushes hard on emissions issues. The San Franciscan was my favorite of all the options but at the time it was only sold with an afterburner - from my understanding Bill has loosened up on that requirement and will sell without if your local area is OK with emissions. In my area anything under 12K was allowed without an afterburner. Overall, almost all of the afterburners on the market were similarly priced when I bought.

I don't know how helpful that is but keep asking questions if you have them... lots of good people here.

 

[trickwheeler]

Is the automation on the P12 good quality? I am about to purchase the P12 or IR12. The IR automation just looks so good, hard to get any info on the P12 though, even from the sales rep. Would you get a P12 again? Anything I need to know?

 

[wmark]

The Probat is semi automated in that you still have to load the beans and drop them. Other than that, the computer can control your flame and air settings. You are also now given the option of using Artisan roasting software to control your roasts.

I do like the power burner as I do not set the gas by inches of water column. I set it by %tage of flame electronically so that it is exacting

 

[trickwheeler]

Sorry I am such a noob, but are you saying I can use artisan as a means of automation? Diedrich is quoting me 12k for automation, if I could use artisan that would be amazing. Is it difficult to set up?

 

[wmark]

You still gotta pay Probat 3k or 3.5 k for the programming but they have given Artisan everything for them to integrate their program to control the Probat. Artisan has better graphics than the probat software. Be aware that probat now has a variable speed exhaust fan option as of this fall....which the Artisan software will control.


I should also mention.....as best described by Tom from Sweet Marias, "roasting with a Probat feels like roasting in a closet" ..............in that it is very restrictive. There is more room to move roasting on my USRC (an o.k. but inferior build quality machine) or my friends Diedrich.

 

[Mugzi]

Wow guys I feel terrible, I somehow forgot to check back on this post. Thank you all for your great input

 

[derek.peris]

Since this post I have added an IR12 to our shop.
It has been set up for roughly 2 1/2 weeks, just over 50 roaster after seasoning.
My batch sizes are 6.5, 12.5, 18.5 #'s
Very smooth to operate & control heat/airflow. The finished product is very consistent coloration, best of all, the cup is amazing!
Coming off the 1K MCR has been a smooth transition.
No hesitation if asked if its a good choice!

 

[almico]

Just curious, if you had a MCR 1kg, why did you not consider their 10kg? It's a superior machine at a very good price, if you don't mind manual roasting. Personally, all automated roasters, including the venerable Loring leave a lot to be desired.

 

[derek.peris]

i roasted on the 1k MCR for 18+ months, was ALOT of mini adjustments on every batch to keep it consistent, I had no way to compare or say it is a superior roaster, lots of willing opinions out there.
I was sure I didn't want to continue manipulating every batch on a bigger machine, way-to labor intensive. The price for MCR 10k is more than I was interested in paying.
I enjoy turning on the IR12, its heat is super steady. 12lb batches are so much easier than a 2lb batch on the 1k. To set up 100 #'s for roasting in an evening is now easy. Great choice!
Sorry if I missed answering your questions.