Popcorn Lung and the Flu

[Blue Cliff Roaster]

Well there goes roasting for today....I found this article regarding coffee roasting and the Influenza A virus.

Have been hearing a lot of news regarding Diacetyl created during roasting and grinding of coffee and the long term detrimental effects on lung health.

Here is a quick synopsis of the article below (cut and paste the URL for the full article);

It seems that even a small amounts of Diacetyl, tho not normally too bad unless say you regularly operate an industrial grinder, is greatly compounded when combined with the flu. To what seems like a scary degree.

Research: Common Coffee Chemical Combined with Flu May Damage Lungs

Short-term exposure to a chemical compound created in the coffee roasting process called diacetyl may have damaging effects on lung health.

dailycoffeenews.com

 

[Coffee_Mad_Man]

Well there goes roasting for today....I found this article regarding coffee roasting and the Influenza A virus.

Have been hearing a lot of news regarding Diacetyl created during roasting and grinding of coffee and the long term detrimental effects on lung health.

Here is a quick synopsis of the article below (cut and paste the URL for the full article);

It seems that even a small amounts of Diacetyl, tho not normally too bad unless say you regularly operate an industrial grinder, is greatly compounded when combined with the flu. To what seems like a scary degree.

Research: Common Coffee Chemical Combined with Flu May Damage Lungs

Short-term exposure to a chemical compound created in the coffee roasting process called diacetyl may have damaging effects on lung health.

dailycoffeenews.com

Wow... I'll make sure I'm wearing my filtered gas mask when making coffee then!

 

[Coffee_Mad_Man]

I'm glad I don't eat microwave popcorn anymore...

 

[Blue Cliff Roaster]

I'm glad I don't eat microwave popcorn anymore...

Oy! I wonder what Niosh level is recommended for Diacetyl? Those respirators looked pretty pricy. 2025 will be the year of figuring out ventilation. Thanks for the share!

 

[shadow7453]

Like most aspects in life just another overrated concern if you ask me. Everything we do every day can lead to harmful long term health issues. FWIW I've been diagnosed for decades as having severe chronic persistent asthma with a restrictive component and am monitored often. Been home roasting over 8 yrs now and my lung function/overall health has not gotten the least bit worse from my roasting. If decent steps are taken it can surely be done quite safely long term. I roast outdoors year round and usually have steady wind due to how the jet stream is in our area, giving plenty of straight line breeze. On the rare days things are still I will wear a thick mask just to be sure. Granted if someone is really cranking out the smoke with lots of batches, going darker, in an unventilated space no doubt it has to cause health issues in time. Same could be said for constant frying/grilling in confined spaces as well.

 

[Blue Cliff Roaster]

Like most aspects in life just another overrated concern if you ask me. Everything we do every day can lead to harmful long term health issues. FWIW I've been diagnosed for decades as having severe chronic persistent asthma with a restrictive component and am monitored often. Been home roasting over 8 yrs now and my lung function/overall health has not gotten the least bit worse from my roasting. If decent steps are taken it can surely be done quite safely long term. I roast outdoors year round and usually have steady wind due to how the jet stream is in our area, giving plenty of straight line breeze. On the rare days things are still I will wear a thick mask just to be sure. Granted if someone is really cranking out the smoke with lots of batches, going darker, in an unventilated space no doubt it has to cause health issues in time. Same could be said for constant frying/grilling in confined spaces as well.

It may have come out a bit doom casting. Certainly I won't stop roasting but I am going work on improving my air indoor quality...In the winter I can either not roast or roast indoors...I would be loath to give up roasting for that long.
It is good to hear about your situation and how you manage to still get down to it. They specifically mention Influenza A and I have no knowledge beyond that, really for me it is something to be aware of and I wanted to share with others who might find the info useful.
FWIW In Oct, long before I had even heard of this chemical, I decided to take advantage of a day I was off sick to do my weekly roasting. I love the smell of roasting coffee and regularly waft the exhaust from my M3s 200g loads through out the roasting stages waiting for that first crack indicating smell...all was semi normal (actually sick) until nearing first crack and my beloved smell.... I have never felt pain like that, it was like snorting a blow torch on every inhale. Things went back to normal by next roast and there was my beautiful smells again but I will tell you, even before I read and shared that article and watched the video Mad Man shared back in this thread, I already promised myself to "Never roast when I am sick"...so I already had a 'Why' strong enough to stop me cold.
I smoke the house out regularly with my Union roaster, a little of the old L'eau du Cafe, I didn't know it had such potential for harm. Seems to me that 'potential' from the article and video is pretty much tantamount to smacking a bull in the ass. At some point it may get real.
Frankly I am a bit envious of Shadow's out door roasting situation. When I first got my Union roaster I did roast with it out doors but the slightest breeze and my roasting times soared from a desirable 16mins to Promethean 55min of turning a handle round and round. I can't even imagine what the ROR would have looked like. Ironically the beans were decent.

 

[Coffee_Mad_Man]

It may have come out a bit doom casting. Certainly I won't stop roasting but I am going work on improving my air indoor quality...In the winter I can either not roast or roast indoors...I would be loath to give up roasting for that long.
It is good to hear about your situation and how you manage to still get down to it. They specifically mention Influenza A and I have no knowledge beyond that, really for me it is something to be aware of and I wanted to share with others who might find the info useful.
FWIW In Oct, long before I had even heard of this chemical, I decided to take advantage of a day I was off sick to do my weekly roasting. I love the smell of roasting coffee and regularly waft the exhaust from my M3s 200g loads through out the roasting stages waiting for that first crack indicating smell...all was semi normal (actually sick) until nearing first crack and my beloved smell.... I have never felt pain like that, it was like snorting a blow torch on every inhale. Things went back to normal by next roast and there was my beautiful smells again but I will tell you, even before I read and shared that article and watched the video Mad Man shared back in this thread, I already promised myself to "Never roast when I am sick"...so I already had a 'Why' strong enough to stop me cold.
I smoke the house out regularly with my Union roaster, a little of the old L'eau du Cafe, I didn't know it had such potential for harm. Seems to me that 'potential' from the article and video is pretty much tantamount to smacking a bull in the ass. At some point it may get real.
Frankly I am a bit envious of Shadow's out door roasting situation. When I first got my Union roaster I did roast with it out doors but the slightest breeze and my roasting times soared from a desirable 16mins to Promethean 55min of turning a handle round and round. I can't even imagine what the ROR would have looked like. Ironically the beans were decent.

I love the smell of roasting coffee too!
There was another video of a roasting plant where they changed it so it was well ventilated to ensure low levels of Diacetyl.
This was the video pre-changes:

This was the video post-changes:

What mask do you use @shadow745 ?

 

[Blue Cliff Roaster]

I love the smell of roasting coffee too!
There was another video of a roasting plant where they changed it so it was well ventilated to ensure low levels of Diacetyl.
This was the video pre-changes:

This was the video post-changes:

What mask do you use @shadow745 ?

Thanks for posting those videos! What an awesome company!!
Nice to see that there are reasonable and effective ways to deal with it where it is problematic.

 

[shadow7453]

I didn't read much into it and possible issues mixing roasting with illness. I will honestly say I can easily laugh at such weak viruses mentioned in various articles after having survived cryptococcal meningitis and 2 strokes stemming from that/treatment needed 6+ yrs ago. That permanently destroyed all hearing in both ears and really affected roasting as I relied heavily on hearing development as well as smell. Also lost taste/smell for awhile, but kept at it knowing what my extractions 'should' taste like, lmao. Those senses (taste/smell) did recover for the most part, but was a rude awakening getting used to roasting profoundly deaf. I then incorporated more forms of temp measurement so I had consistent readings to match visual/smell. But yep I built my setup to be very capable/robust and have roasted on a 20 degree day with sustained winds measuring 15-20 mph... official wind chill/feels like temp was 8 degrees F and my heat gun still easily handled that with 40% capacity on standby. Roast times/temps were spot on. Back on topic I suppose!

 

[Blue Cliff Roaster]

I didn't read much into it and possible issues mixing roasting with illness. I will honestly say I can easily laugh at such weak viruses mentioned in various articles after having survived cryptococcal meningitis and 2 strokes stemming from that/treatment needed 6+ yrs ago. That permanently destroyed all hearing in both ears and really affected roasting as I relied heavily on hearing development as well as smell. Also lost taste/smell for awhile, but kept at it knowing what my extractions 'should' taste like, lmao. Those senses (taste/smell) did recover for the most part, but was a rude awakening getting used to roasting profoundly deaf. I then incorporated more forms of temp measurement so I had consistent readings to match visual/smell. But yep I built my setup to be very capable/robust and have roasted on a 20 degree day with sustained winds measuring 15-20 mph... official wind chill/feels like temp was 8 degrees F and my heat gun still easily handled that with 40% capacity on standby. Roast times/temps were spot on. Back on topic I suppose!

Wow!...You have definitely earned the right to sneer at any such puny viruses, and have my unabashed respect.
Admittedly I did have to convert 8F as a Canuk but -13C is definitely cold enough to pucker the waddles of an angry Cassowary. Gives me hope that my unheated garage may be workable.
I have questions...

1. Do you do anything, or find the need, to shield your set up from wind?

2. Have you found much difference in results; say summer vs. winter roasts?

 

[shadow7453]

1. Nope, actually the only thing I decided to add is that aluminum pipe reducer on top to act as a chimney of sorts. It being tapered it reduces airflow a tiny bit and helps retain heat as well as preventing wind from making its way down into the roaster. The way I designed/built it no preheat is needed and it just rocks with everything I put it through.
2. Nope on that as well as I just make heat gun temp/agitation speed changes to offset ambient temp, etc. and my times/temps are so consistent I can just about do it blindfolded. One thing I didn't like about most purpose built roasters is the steps needed to roast in colder/windy weather as many just weren't up to the task without mods or workarounds. I built mine to minimize heat loss, being affected by gusty wind, that sort of thing as in enclosing any areas affected by wind, keeping temp probes in key locations for real time feedback, etc. No insulation either.

 

[bvanevery61]

I built mine to minimize heat loss, being affected by gusty wind, that sort of thing as in enclosing any areas affected by wind, keeping temp probes in key locations for real time feedback, etc. No insulation either.

Huh, makes me wonder if a rocket stove roaster build is feasible. No electricity, just use wooden sticks. I studied such stoves years ago but never had a compelling reason to build one.

 

[JordanS3]

Probably all the cigarettes..I can see it already that cloud of Marlboros or newports..they too high though. A lot of the coffee where I’m at between the French roast and cafe’ style have me wanting cigars..since I moved to the south it’s harder to find like Philly cigars and rillos. They were pretty good but I did use to start getting games with my coffee and pretty good and about like the corner store still barely remember when Garcia Vegas had like 3 or 4 single wraps. Well it’s good up and enjoy my good after hours lounge the weather been turny rainy icky and stuff. But I appreciate your time and what there’s to talk about with coffee a lot blends I never tried or much of the green or more Yerba mate synthetic stuff…I’m liking my Gevalia and bustello quite a bit cozy and comfy and good when there’s no humidity where I’m at. That’s what I would do get ya a good game pack and a guitar or something to kill some time with. The pc gets annoying sometimes I’ve been building for years and still we’ve never seen it this bad with the ram and xmp/expo crash stuff or making a cpu impractical for certain boards if you want to use a certain kit and non qvl kit..it use to be pretty universal and never had issues unless the dimm was failing memtest so it’s about the current state of it..I should try like a new Dolgix kit from Amazon see if it goes away..it might might not and still my 2600x cpu. It’s not bad but not quite as forgiving as usual just one of those configuration things. Some peeps crazy about it though and long since updated past AM4 though but I hit pretty good silicon lottery and the vrms on the Juxieshi b450m this board defaults quite high in vid and the 4100 frequency so still can run anything out there with my vega56. So yeah I spend a good bit of time still with all that everyday like both work and play..I’m trying to get out of a lot of boredom though. Thinking about ordering some of those big bags of herbal smoke from amazon too..some of those skull cap blends look nice if I want to twist something up and just other alternative to tobacco…I’m nit crazy about cigarettes though or ever found that addictive qualities with coffee…so yeah cheers hope nothing like that befalls you in anyway.

 

[shadow7453]

Huh, makes me wonder if a rocket stove roaster build is feasible. No electricity, just use wooden sticks. I studied such stoves years ago but never had a compelling reason to build one.

Most anything is possible, but practical/effective/efficient highly unlikely. For roasting you need consistent/controllable heat, consistent agitation and airflow to keep things moving and developing in a decent time frame.

 

[JordanS3]

Idk that’s for you diehard and organic roasters..I bought bagged whole bean is organic enough..almost too organic some like when coffee is dried out and borderline moldy..some of those brick cafe style blocks are like at your local store…I think their real high in clean caffeine….like I said I sometimes like the cleaner cleaner caffeine pills and stuff like tea the Yerba mate pills..anything to help avoid cheap cigarettes..a lot of that can’t find anymore anyways…305s from the dollar store and good coffee is pretty good though and help insomniac and sleep all day for a week and catch up on some lost sleep..now if your like that and like me with coffee theirs some good to better nicotine cessation herbal smokes, amazon looking like they got some great good 1-2oz 55g bags for a great deal thinking about trying one..now that may be unsprayed K2 but is what it is still a bunch of dopey stuff can spray it with…its lame in my state or last state I would of had all the legal 10g bags of k2 and enjoyed a good night smoke when they were good like cloud 9-11 was really good like medical Marijuana..that’s still really good don’t get me wrong but that makes me want to make Hash and stuff and a big blond flower tips brick of the Keif…or something really good and illegal Morrocan stuff. Whatever else after hours..but yeah I like coffee.,but do end up drinking it at the wrong time and keeps me up but that’s ok..thinking about picking up the real clean Starbucks blonde bag of whole bean agian..my grinder did make some delicious smells with that one a fine dust..and really wasn’t overpowering at all and rather flowery…but no I don’t collect state by state Starbucks cups or nothing. I’m just being me trying to kill time and say hello the forums have been dead and pc tech forums been real dead past like 6-8 years..I’m at the worst with another motherboard not liking either or a 3200 or 3600 frequency kits and needing to order memory and try a 2666 kit..stuff from China don’t work exactly as advertised but that’s alright..the quality ain’t half bad I fixed my internet and my carrier modem died during storm then I had some problems hooking up the WiFi eeros I have medicomcable btw..so I have two packages now and must of been a severe storm it was blowing the walls pretty good about 5 years ago I do get some weather where I’m at and had some tornado alley stuff go over me like an F1 and it bowed my whole back wall in this 93’ Clayton mobile home/smaller mobile home..so I’m always prepared me..I leave my office and middle room running alot…so good stuff I may be simple and outdated but that’s ok it’s built pretty well my subfloor is nice and the roof only a few years old too. So doing well..sold the 09 Tacoma on 265s pickup for parts and scrape the box was still good cleaned a lot of the gunk out of it and rigged the shifting and slide arm pretty good cause it broke but no it’s project didn’t want get into how how gas is..so now I got big little and the 012’ Fusion Se and the duratec doing pretty good on Casterol and the stp filter..but it’s heading into being more of a Chrysler the nut bucked the IPs sensor on the intake and blew it off into the bottom of the hood when I was adding oil and flushed it pretty good it had some burnt stuff in there most definitely. So yeah some minor automotive things I need a new 8 dollar air filter about it..the cheap kinda bent and not good wiper arms hope they don’t scratch the glass..but all minor though compression still good for the 68k on that motor and hasn’t gotten that froze yet..it’s just the one that likes the belt doing good and another belt grease one….so yeah good morning I thank you for your time and will update I try anything new with the coffee world.