Probat vs. Diedrich

[elguapo]

I would love to revisit this age old questions, especially since both companies claim to have new features on their current new models.
We're in the market for a new roaster. We roast on a 5 kilo Ambex now, but we're looking to get a new roaster. Ambex is fine and gets the job done, but we are looking for a roaster with better quality and better access to service. Based on conversations and what we have read, we would like either a 12 kilo Diedrich or Probat.
We have no roasting experience on either, but are drawn to their quality, reputation, ability to offer service and resale value.
Assuming both of those are those items are all the same (Probat probably has slightly better resale value). Why should we pick one over the other. Our concern with Diedrich is their IR burners and how they would differ from Ambex's direct flame, and the learning curve around that. Probat would be direct flame like we're used to, but is an extra $11K worth it. Do they both have the capability of delivering great coffee, it's just a preference?
Thanks!

 

[CoffeeJunky]

I think end product is not very different from Ambex. Good comparison would be. Ambex as Toyota or Honda and Probat or Diedrich to Mercedes and BMW.

 

[chast]

Poor customer support from D.

 

[CoffeeJunky]

I heard taht before

 

[Amhas]

Poor customer support from D.

I would completely disagree with this statement. I just purchased an IR unit and Diedrich has been very good supporting me so far. I hold a high standard to support and would never have purchased from them if I hadn't gotten a positive feel for this before I purchased from them. That said I would never go on my word I would contact them yourself and see for yourself. I would do the same for Probat as well.

 

[elguapo]

I have also heard around about poor customer service and asked the sales rep at Diedrich about this specifically. She said there was a period around 2010 when they started charging for customer support. She acknowledged it was a mistake and said they no longer do that and they have a team of a few support people. She assured me if I had any issues I could contact them directly, to get troubleshooting advise for no charge.

My call with both ended up with both making the same promises of stellar service, and Diedrich had the edge, a little, on their sales pitch and walking me through how different things work and specifically about options. Probat gave a few points on why theirs is so good, but basically said, 'ours is the best, buy it.'

Does anyone currently or have recently had bad service from them? If not, are there other factors for me to consider? Has someone roasted a lot on both and have good reasons why one is better?

 

[sae]

I'm researching the same time now. I haven't drawn any conclusions yet as to which is "better" but I have learned a few things. It seems like the probat will naturally gravitate to roasting a more lively/acidic coffee whereas most of the diedrich roasts I have tasted have a really nice caramelization but less acidity. Of course this depends on the human roaster and how they are using the machine but these are some general trends I've found.
Diedrich's I think have less air flow which I think contributes to the decrease in perceived acidity. The probats could be less prone to scorching because they have a dual wall drum so the flame never directly contacts the drum.
I like the placement of the glass on the diedrichs and I think it's bigger than the probats
The diedrich has more options for thermocouples and probes and on the new diedrichs you can even put the outputs so you can hook it up directly to a computer
If you buy a probat L12 may not be able to roast and cool at the same time - for this you need to buy the P12.
The diedrich pulls air through the cooling bin and then into the drum so the first few minutes of your roast will have hot air from the cooling beans going through your roast.
I've heard the Diedrich are easier to maintain than the probats (less moving parts)
It's hard for me to justify 50% more cost for the probat.

 

[Amhas]

Our concern with Diedrich is their IR burners and how they would differ from Ambex's direct flame, and the learning curve around that. Probat would be direct flame like we're used to, but is an extra $11K worth it.
Thanks!

I can tell you that based on what I have experienced that the IR burners are not a factor in performance or lack of it from what some seem to have suggested. My IR1 can and does provide plenty of power/heat. At 80-85% capacity I'm having no issue with getting to first crack by or before 9 minutes with no tipping or scorching. I have done 8 season roasts and now on my 12th consumable roast and I'm pretty consistently hitting the profile on target. I'm new to this too so I imagine someone with more experience would be far better at this than I would be. That's just my experience and 2 cents for what it is worth.:coffeemug:

 

[sae]

I think the older diedrich's had burners that were under sized (especially the old IR24s) but the new ones have more powerful burners so I don't think that's a concern anymore.

 

[AndyP]

I'm starting a roasting business and purchased an Ambex roaster through 'Roaster Dynamics' - not directly from Ambex. It should arrive next week. Service has been great so far. Owner of Roaster Dynamics, Paul, is a great guy and has answered all my questions and then some. I went to tampa when the roaster arrived in the US and roasted a few batches on it. It looks fairly simple to maintain and is constructed really nicely. I've done a little roasting on a Probat as well, which seems to have some fancier features, maybe constructed in a more artisanal way - hammered steel, wooden handle on the tryer - stuff like that. The Ambex appears to be very serviceable with out the fancy add-ons.

 

[Amhas]

I think the older diedrich's had burners that were under sized (especially the old IR24s) but the new ones have more powerful burners so I don't think that's a concern anymore.

I can't speak to that fact but I have heard rumors that they have increased the size of the burners. I'm impressed how large the burner is on my IR1. The machine appears to be very well built and nicely finished. No complaints so far just some minor tweaks (with a bouncy manometer) and support was free and very helpful.

 

[elguapo]

I'm researching the same time now. I haven't drawn any conclusions yet as to which is "better" but I have learned a few things. It seems like the probat will naturally gravitate to roasting a more lively/acidic coffee whereas most of the diedrich roasts I have tasted have a really nice caramelization but less acidity. Of course this depends on the human roaster and how they are using the machine but these are some general trends I've found.
Diedrich's I think have less air flow which I think contributes to the decrease in perceived acidity. The probats could be less prone to scorching because they have a dual wall drum so the flame never directly contacts the drum.
I like the placement of the glass on the diedrichs and I think it's bigger than the probats
The diedrich has more options for thermocouples and probes and on the new diedrichs you can even put the outputs so you can hook it up directly to a computer
If you buy a probat L12 may not be able to roast and cool at the same time - for this you need to buy the P12.
The diedrich pulls air through the cooling bin and then into the drum so the first few minutes of your roast will have hot air from the cooling beans going through your roast.
I've heard the Diedrich are easier to maintain than the probats (less moving parts)
It's hard for me to justify 50% more cost for the probat.

Thanks for the extra info, I have not heard most of that. I love both bright acidic and carmelly roasts respectively, so that's tough too! Keep the thread updated if you have any new info, I would love to hear as much as possible!

 

[JerryB]

I saw this thread and wondered why the San Franciscan wasn't mentioned here at all. I too am reviewing rosters except I'm looking at much smaller ones than a 12 kilo. Is it wrong for me to ask here on this thread how the San Franciscan compares with respect to the Probat and Diedrich roasters?

 

[elguapo]

I'm starting a roasting business and purchased an Ambex roaster through 'Roaster Dynamics' - not directly from Ambex. It should arrive next week. Service has been great so far. Owner of Roaster Dynamics, Paul, is a great guy and has answered all my questions and then some. I went to tampa when the roaster arrived in the US and roasted a few batches on it. It looks fairly simple to maintain and is constructed really nicely. I've done a little roasting on a Probat as well, which seems to have some fancier features, maybe constructed in a more artisanal way - hammered steel, wooden handle on the tryer - stuff like that. The Ambex appears to be very serviceable with out the fancy add-ons.

We got our roasters from both Paul and Ambex's previous rep, Terry. When I needed parts, Paul was there for me, so there is no issue there. And even today, Amer at Ambex helped me order a new bearing housing for the back of the drum. Paul was great to work with and I never bought through Amer.

My issue with Ambex service is that they give you a roaster and then you're totally on your own without any kind of operating manual. No schedule of maintenance, no diagrams of assemblies. Maybe they have changed that since we got out last roaster a few years ago...

A mark for Diedrich is that they forwarded me all manuals before I have made my decision, so I can at least know what I'm getting into. Probat did not offer the same, but in fairness I have not asked them yet.

 

[elguapo]

I saw this thread and wondered why the San Franciscan wasn't mentioned here at all. I too am reviewing rosters except I'm looking at much smaller ones than a 12 kilo. Is it wrong for me to ask here on this thread how the San Franciscan compares with respect to the Probat and Diedrich roasters?

I was selfishly making this thread all about my decision, and I was only trying to narrow the field to a couple choices to make it more focused. There are many great roaster companies, and people are passionate about their brands, I just wanted to hear from these two crowds. Having said that, people are free to interject all opinions here....