Profle Question

Baugo

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Hello, I have a profiling question. I have read many an article on profiles. Many folks say that between FC and SC should be approx. 3 min. I have tried many differant approaches. And so far the best I have came upwith for me is a 18 min roast. The formula varies a bit but, basicly starts @
400F. for the drop, then curve up <>20F/min untill FC
then slow the curve to between 5 and 10F/min untill dump. (give or take). Does this data sound right to you more seasond folks?

Drop 0:00 400
Start 1st Crack 10:00/ 305F.
Rolling 1st Crack 11:00/ 320F.
Start 2nd Crack 17:00/ 420F.
Rolling 2nd Crack 18:10/ 440F.
Dump 18:31/ 442F.
this data was taken with probe in the bean mass




image001-1.gif
 

Temuri

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Tbilisi Georgia
Have you ever really roasted coffee? or after reading some articles about roasting you believe that it could be the right thing? Do you think to apply this profile to all coffee or may be you "plan" to roast only one type?
By the way dramatical Temp/time changes in the chart.
Anyway I love everybody who thinks about coffee :grin:
 
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Baugo

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First of all is this the kind of helpful response I can expect from everyone here, I hope not. Second I suppose I should have specified origin. And No this is not 1 size fits all. And on a personal note have you had your cup yet because, dude, have a cup and calm down, I just asked a question.
I AM HAVING A BIT OF TROUBLE, here and was asking the pros for a little help. If the profile is way off, just kindly say so and point me in the right direction. After 48 hr rest/degassing it has a small bit of a baked aroma but still taste good. I suppose that I should shorten the profile by say 2 mins? If you or someone else has any constructive advise I would be glad to listen. I have been roasting for awhile but I still am struggling to get MY perfect cup.

Temuri : May your roaster yeild only the finest of coffees
May your families be blessed beyond all they have every known
May your finances find profit in areas you never knew exsisted
May your health find you fit and well
May your new year be as blessed as a King
May you find Peace, Love and Joy everywhere you go.
Temuri, May you have a very Happy Holidays
God Bless
 

topher

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Baugo...first I want to say welcome to the forum! What coffee are you roasting and what are you trying to achieve from it. I also see you are dropping at 400 degrees...I would start a bit higher if you are getting a baked flavor/smell after it is roasted...seems to me that you might be roasting it at to low of a temp at the begining of the roast...well keep us posted :wink:
 

Temuri

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OK Baugo! May be I was on a bad mood. You are really right, you were just asking a friendly advise. Forgive me, simply by my nature I dont like "theory guys" like consultants who know everything about anything and in reality are doing nothing. by mistake I got your ad like another snobish one of a person "who knows everything about roasting and has profile "formula" calculated in tenth of seconds". Sorry again!

Temuri
 
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Baugo

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Hey, no problem Temuri, we all have our days LOL. Topher and Temuri, Hi. As for the type I am working with; the easy beans, "Colombian Supremo", I will be soon working on Sumatra Mand, Costa, Yirg and maybe a brazil. But was trying to get over the Colombian hill before I moved on to the others. OK I ask a new question about that profile. If I start the same but get to FC in 10 mins instead of 11.5 AND get to SC at say, maybe 12deg/min untill dump do ya think that will solve the taste issue or should I start with more energy at the start?????? I have been on both sides of the roast, underdeveloped and baked :( But this last profile has been the closest to what I was shooting for BUT no cookie the baked hint is just that, a slight hint, and by the end of the cup, gone BUT well you know.... Help!!!
 

Temuri

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Baugo!
As for the Colombian Supremo: There are lots of them and they do differ, even high quality samples of the same region will be different. I roast my Bucamaranga several ways for different aims. So my advise is forget at this stage finding some perfect profile for each of your coffee and focus on customers, Are they as competent as you (another bite :) :grin: :D ) to feel the difference if FC was 30 seconds later or earlyer? Are they stuck to Clomobia? I dout that any customer can say : "I would like Colombian coffee with less baked flavor". Customers simply like or dont like it, And you can offer Costa Rica or Kenya, or some good mix instead, or give samples of different coffees and let him deside. Dont only roast columbia and compare numerous samples to each other, If you mind businness roast it twice, let other people (friends ...) decide wich is better and keep it, for beginning. Same with other origins, let people compare different origins first, not roasts.
By the way Who is tasting your coffee, is the tasting blind or ...
Ok have to run! come back tomorrow!

good luck!
 
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Baugo

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First, I know that every machine will have its very own signature and the every lot and yes even samples from the same lot can and do have different internal qualities, after all that’s why I choose drum over air (LOL there’s my bite and I hope it don’t start another discussion, each to there own lol). Anyway; as you make a great point about listening to the consumer instead of myself, (of course I will), however if I am not happy with what my palate tells me about what I will be selling. Don’t I become kind of a hypocrite in trying to focus on/or advertise on “High Quality” Fresh Roasted Coffee? (IMVHO). No I don’t think that the average Johnny Q. Public can really distinguish between French or a Vienna roast, however some can. And I would not want “word of mouth” to ever be negative. To me each and every potential return visit would hang on wither or not, to quote your post, “Customers simply like or don’t like it”. With this, I would be in total agreement. So, should I just leave the taste as is, after all it is a “good” cup, or do I, IMVHO make a “great” cup before I sell? OK I understand that I tend to be my own worst critic, but hey, I just want it to be the very best I can produce. For example; I recently purchased a ½ lb of a commercial coffee just out of curiosity, oh man was I glad to dump it out. It tasted like it was soaked in kerosene and wrapped in rubber for shipment, no kidding. Now this coffee was selling at premium rates. I would not want anyone to say that about mine. :) Now as to the double blind tasting and different origins and yes even blending, yes oh yes this is something that is to be addressed soon. Just need to work out that bug that’s bugging me first :) . Then I will roast a couple of different roasts for each origin or blend for sampling. Does that sound right to everyone? Thank you and I appreciate any and all replies from anyone.
Baugo…..
 
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Baugo

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Topher, I am roasting a C Supremo to a City, City+ Maybe should charge to 425F or 450F? Or try shortening the curve? Which one sound right to you?
It has been 3 days now and the coffee taste nice but, if I tasted it before, is it not still there? I don’t know, maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill. I just want the very best product I can. Any insight? Thanks in advance.
 

topher

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I hate to say this but I do not think you are going to be happy until you have a machine you can have more control with. The way the machine you have works is the only way you can control the heat is by turning off or lowering the burner. Once you get a machine where you can adjust the air- flow I think you will be able to achieve the taste you are looking for. Keep us posted!
 

ElPugDiablo

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Baugo said:
Drop 0:00 400
Start 1st Crack 10:00/ 305F.
Rolling 1st Crack 11:00/ 320F.
Start 2nd Crack 17:00/ 420F.
Rolling 2nd Crack 18:10/ 440F.
Dump 18:31/ 442F.
this data was taken with probe in the bean mass

Are you sure your 1st crack is around 305 - 320? Depending on the location of bean probe 1st crack should be around 370 - 390. I think you need to have that check.

Let's say your first crack is 380, and your second crack is 420, and you want 3 minutes in between, what you want to do to is to have a delta of about 6.67F every 30 seconds for the next 3 minutes or (420-380)/6 = 6.67. Your have two tools to modify your delta, flame and air flow. It's a bit of trial and error and you need to learn about the energy momentum of your roaster. But once you know your roaster any change in profile is relatively easy.

By the way different beans have different second crack temperatures, but first crack is pretty constant.
 
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Baugo

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Thank you I believe that my question is now answered. Yes you are correct on the 1st crack, sorry incorrect data. I noticed that on my next roast log. I suppose, my data recording could stand a bit improving
:oops:
 
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Baugo

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So ElPug
Does this look a bit more realistic?
0:00 425
1:00 210
2:00 220
3:00 240
4:00 260
5:00 280
6:00 300
7:00 320
8:00 340
9:00 360
10:00 380 #1
11:00 393
12:00 406
13:00 419 #2
14:00 432

dumping about 20 sec into #2 for a city(+'ish)?
 

ElPugDiablo

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I think that is a good starting point, but it all depends on the beans and your nose and taste buds. They will tell you if it is a good profile or not. You need to know the moisture and density and the taste you want to create to make profile adjustment. For example softer beans need lower charging temperature, and in my opinion, fruitier beans need less roasting time and should be roasted lighter. A nice steady 20 F increase per minute until 1st crack may or may not be as good as smaller increases at the beginning, larger increase in the middle and moderation after 1st crack. 3 minutes in between 1st and 2nd may or may not be as good as 3 minutes and 30 seconds. 20 seconds into 2nd crack may or may not be as good as just at second crack or 30 seconds into 2nd crack. A 13:20 roast may or may not be as good as a 15:00 roast. You have a lot of variables, what you need to do is alter one variable while keeping other constant, and experiment. The more you tried the more data you will have on a particular coffee, and the sooner you will settle on a roasting profile. Keep roasting notes and cupping notes. The last thing you want to do is create a magical roast but did not have all the steps needed to recreate it.

If you are starting from ground zero, my suggestion is use this profile and as it get into 1st crack, for every 30 seconds take enough beans out so you can cup it. Do this until you get way into second crack a la Starbucks. When you finished you should have 10+ roasting colors to cup. Once you cupped them all, you will know if you like it light, medium or dark roast. Once you decided on the roasting color and therefore dump temperature, you then should alter the charging temperature, mess with flame and air flow control, roasting time. You get to do this with all different beans. After you established profile for them all and can reproduce it with reasonable degrees of consistency, you get to release them to your customers. And most likely they will thank you for it.

Trust your feeling, I mean your taste buds, and may the nose be with you.
 
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