UL listed / NSF approved.

Voorhees coffee

New member
Oct 10, 2005
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Hi folks -
Can someone tell me the difference between the above.
I've seen a cap machine I like (aesthetically) and the reseller tells me it's UL Listed but I don't think it's NSF approved.
Can I use it in a commercial coffee shop ?
Thanks in advance.
 

cafemakers

New member
Nov 3, 2004
576
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Can I use it in a commercial coffee shop ?

Assuming that you're in the United States, probably not - most health departments require both Underwriters Laboratory (electrical and material safety standards) and NSF International (sanitation standards) compliance or a comparable combined mark issued by ETL Semko for operation in a commercial location. Health department standards vary dramatically across the country, so you should confirm what is required with your inspector; you may then wish to search the product directories on each site above to confirm listing.

Note: in some instances a manufacturer may OEM products under a number of different client names, in which case, you can sometimes (but not always) lobby the inspector to approve an idential machine under a different label.

If these certifications do not appear on your product, it is possible that 1) the manufacturer does not intend the product to be used in a commercial environment or 2) does not sell enough of that model into the USA to justify the expense of certification (or compliance, in the event of an attempted but failed certification). In either situation, the machine is probably not the one that you want to rely on for your business income.


Best of success,

Andrew
 

CCafe

New member
Aug 11, 2004
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Des Moines, Iowa
That’s not always the case though on some of the certifications. I know of a few machines that don't meet the UL standards due to not having all of the panels encasing the machine grounded with a grounding wire. Even though if you test the machine with a multimeter it shows it is 100% grounded.

There are even times where they won't make it through the certification process because of color schemes they use mark wires or tubing for some type of specification. As we all know, green or green and yellow are the default colors for a ground wire. So if you use green to identify a wire or a pipe that’s purpose is anything other then a ground wire or point, this can stop them from passing.

But cafemakers is right, you should probably go with a UL or NSF standard. Also a newer standard that is making its mark is the ISO 9000. It’s another one that you should look for. For more info on it you can go to http://www.iso.org/iso/en/ISOOnline.frontpage.
 

cafemakers

New member
Nov 3, 2004
576
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ISO-9000 is a quality management process for business to business interaction and customer service - how is this standard applicable in the context of an espresso machine approval for use in a coffee shop?

Having completed ISO-9001 certification at a former business, I can tell you first hand that if you don't like seemingly arbitrary processes and documentation requirements, you'll probably not enjoy an ISO-9000 audit.
 
I worked on a project with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey with their airports (JFK, LaGuardia and Newark) trying to turn them into world class airports. They had gotten dinged in a JD Power & Assoc. survey.

There was a group at JFK that kept getting bottom scores on customer satisfaction. That was the group in Customs responsible for cavity searches. They got hammered on the question about whether they were "friendly and courteous." Their positin was that they did not have to be friendly and courteous, they had to be professional. If you think about it, the notion of someone doing a cavity search being "friendly and courteous" is scary. "Hi! I'm Bob and I'm going to be probing you today. That's it. Bend over and how's about a big vertical smile. There you go. Hey, are you a Giants fan? Great game, Monday, eh?"

So what does this have to do with ISO-9000? Internal audits. Expect an intrusive professional exploration of what until then you thought was your business.
 

CCafe

New member
Aug 11, 2004
1,557
0
Des Moines, Iowa
My bad, I was half a sleep when I wrote that post. I was referring to the ISO in general. They have developed many standards over the years. I shouldn't have slapped the 900x on it. You are right that is for business paper work. Sorry.
 

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