What's your electrical service size?

[spark]

We finally have a lease to start our negotiations. I am looking to see what others electrical service size is so I can make sure to negotiate for the right size. We are about 1300 sq. ft., have a small kitchen with UC high temp dishwasher, freezer and fridges, plus all the bar items.

Thanks
Neil

 

[cafemakers]

Add up the required amperage for all devices that may operate simultaneously (don't forget lighting and HVAC). Probably 200+ amps for an "average" coffee shop with small kitchen.

 

[CCafe]

200 amps! :shock:

You would be surprised to find out that 200 amps doesn't really run all that much.

Our building has 600 amp service. Very big boxes hanging on the wall with an even bigger kill switch. From what the owner has told me time to time the electric bill runs around $1,500 a month.

 

[cafemakers]

200 amps! :shock:

Our building has 600 amp service. .

600? Are you roasting using electricity? Most shops that I've worked on do not exceed 250; the occasional restaurant will need 400.

 

[CCafe]

Let see here the main floor is 3000 square feet with 16 or 20' ceiling. The basement has the same square footage along with 9' ceiling. Building dates back to the 1880 so the cooling and heating requirements are rather large.

As for equipment.

2 Fetco CBS 52H
1 3-group Cimbali
1 2-group Cimbali
4 espresso grinders
2 bulk grinders
2 panini grills
1 microwave
1 roaster
1 3bay glass fridge
1 2bay glass freezer
1 under counter fridge
1 display cooler

Thats just behind the counter and doesn't include some of the smaller electrical appliances.

Then we have a stage with sound equipment which also ties in the store music. A few really big indoor neon signs.

Also missing are 3 or 4 more fridges along with another 4 freezers. Ice machine, lights, computers, network equipment, outdoor light. There is also an office behind the stage.

The basement houses most of the freezers and also my work shop. Which includes even more power hookups for working on equipment.

Here's a picture that only shows half of the building.

This one here shows a little more.

 

[nemoscoffee]

We have a 200 amp panel, and a second panel at 70 amps.
We are running:
La Marzocco 3 group Linea, two espresso grinders
Bunn twin brewer
Ice Machine
Two UC Refrigerators in bar area
Blenders (blendtec 15 amp units)
Fetco coffee grinder
POS computer/monitor/etc
Large refrigerator in back room, and a freezer
Convection oven
Office computer and printer
Cooktop unit
Three Roof top HVAC units
Lighting, including outside sign
Stereo equipment, three more computers

Our total sq footage is 2000

Last elec bill was $770


JD

 

[spark]

I have added up the 2 group LM, fridges, freezers, blender, dishwasher, etc and get 238 amps. Don't know the HVAC needs as the space is a new white box. Also, not sure about the water heater, on-demand to help save energy or a standing tank (see what the $$$ is). I appreciate the help, I know we will be able to get enough, just want to go to the negotiations with a better handle on this number and make sure when we tell him to up the service we can say atleast blank, which is atleast 400 amps it sounds.

Thanks
Neil

 

[morrisn]

A 200 amp service should be more than adequate. We are in an older building with only a 100 amp service and while we are pushing the limit we have made it work but every circuit is maxed

Espresso Machine
2 Espresso Grinders
Bulk Grinder
3 Fridges
3 Freezers
2 Deli Coolers
2 Panini Grills
Ice Machine
2 Computers
Beverage Fridge
2 Door Cooler
AC

 

[CCafe]

The one thing you never want to be is maxed out. Its cheaper in the beginning to have a larger service installed. So if you need to grow its already there.

Installing a larger service after the fact is very expensive and time consuming. It still not as bad as a water main break but just as much of a headache.

 

[BaristaTrainer]

It is a common mistake to not have adequate electrical service. 200 amps is generally not enough for an average coffee house, and even a 1500 sq. ft. cafe can use between 300-400 amps.

Once you add up all equipment amperage, let's say it comes to about 250/275 ... this amount then does not include area lighting, signage, stereo, HVAC, television, etc.

I believe too that electrical panels often come in 200 amp panels, so 400 might be the easiest installation.

Also, unlike in your home you should not batch circuits with multiple equipment as in your coffee house, especially during a rush you may be running everything at once.

here is a basic idea of some equipment averages:

espresso machine 30 amps
burr grinders 5 amps each
bulk grinder/portion control 17 amps
pastry case 9 amps
merchandiser fridge 6 amps
auto dish washer 50 amps
water heater 30 amps
water filtration system 2 amps
refrigerators (under counter/upright) 8-10 amps each
freezer 12 amps
ice machine 14 amps
granita machine 11 amps
blenders 20 amps each
microwave 15 amps
cash register (low amperage)
panini grill 20 amps
soup warmer 9 amps

- Matt