Batch Brewing

[Redswing]

Here's an interesting read relating to the brewing trends. I'd like to hear what you all think. (John P, I already know what you think ) (But I'd still like to hear)

Back to Batch Brew | Fresh Cup Magazine

One part that grabbed my attention was the writers claim that batch brewing is more accurate than by the cup brewing. They state that a day of making pour overs will result in wildly different cups. That surprised me, because I fell for the pour over precisely because of its claim of control. Granted, I realize they aren't trying to convince somebody who is really hard core about brewing for consistency, but more the average shop that isn't quite as focused on the process.

 

[CCafe]

I feel that to many people put far more effort in to cup brewing then they should and tend criticize batch brewing only because they of what they have read. I was in a shop not to long ago where the owner told me they they only offer batch brewing because part of their clientele had not come to the realization of what they are truly missing by not choosing cup brewing. Yet when I looked at the brewer they went out and bought a Bunn CWTF-APS that really isn't meant for a specialty coffee establishment. Its a good brewer but not a good fit to his store. He admitted that without the brewer he would be unable to serve everyone in a timely manner.

When I suggested replacement with a different brewer that would serve his needs as well as give him a far superior cup he turned it down saying his customers should learn the difference between quality vs quantity. Again this comes from coffee snob propaganda, to many people out there that have forgotten coffee's heritage just because someone says this is better than that.

As for batch brewers, I'm big fan of the Bunn Infusion line. A Bunn ICB is so easy to work with a complete novice with absolutely no coffee experience could set it up. Fetco's CBS 20XX as well as Curtis' G3 line are roughly the same for difficulty, if you don't have a manual to walk you through setup your not going to make it very far. Fetco's new XTS brewer along with Curtis' G4 line have made some big improvements adding larger screens making it easier to navigate which in turn should make it easier to program.

My winner for batch brewers would be the Bunn Infusion line. Its simple to work on, simple to fix, and extremely easy to make adjustments on the fly. A nice bonus is if you purchase the BrewWISE Recipe writer you'll never have to program at the brewer again. Just load up the software, make adjustments and write them to a card. After that its a few quick steps to load the card to the brewer and your done. Not bad for something that's been around since 2003. I'm all for ease of use.

 

[chast]

Wilbur Curtis's Gold Cup brewer does an excellent job for single cup brewing. Had a demo in my shop for awhile. Can be programmed to give the pour over effect and can do 2 cups at the same time. I plan to order one for Decaffe customers plus for that just before closing customer that needs a fix. I have a Fetco 2042E and although I feel it is easy to program, I can see where there could be a lot of mistakes made because the sequence could confuse someone. Very easy to repair if needed. Anyone who is mechanically inclined could fix their own. I do not like the solenoid set up. Batch brewers are needed for the grab and go crowd and it also depends on your location. Look at the shops that do not have any. Strictly pour over and siphon. Their customers will wait. Wouldn't fly where I am. Afternoon maybe, but not the mornings.

 

[peterjschmidt]

I'm not sure how this fits into the conversation, but there is an element of "the best shops are doing this or that, so we should be doing it too." A customer of my roasted coffee commented how he was enamored by the fact that a local cafe "does only pourovers". I told him that they might simply be following a trend that started a few years back, and it finally took hold in Milwaukee now. And that the shops who started that trend may well be onto something else by now, such as siphon brewing.

Cafes can be swayed by what they perceive to be popular demand and move toward what they think the public wants, or by following trends to give the public something new. Neither is necessarily the best coffee.

 

[Redswing]

I guess my first critique of the idea of batch brew is freshness. I can see brewing a big thermal carafe for rush times. But don't you agree that coffee that sits for 15 minutes in something like that loses its depth? That was one piece of the pie that wasn't discussed. Maybe they figure that shops don't brew very far ahead.

Seems to me that if I were to run a shop, I would get set up with a nice large brewing system, while at the same time offering pour overs of specific coffees if people want them, and then go only pour overs for brewed coffee when demand was low.

 

[CCafe]

Seems to me that if I were to run a shop, I would get set up with a nice large brewing system, while at the same time offering pour overs of specific coffees if people want them, and then go only pour overs for brewed coffee when demand was low.

I agree with you here.

Since being on the repair side to all of this I go from shop to shop fixing and drinking product. I can say that everyone has a different taste as well as preference to make their product. I won't lie. I like drip coffee fresh and I don't mind it if its an hour old. Because I'm lazy at my office I make a lot of Americano's. When I do make drip coffee for my 3 liter pump pot I try to drink it all, even if it does take all day. I've drank so much bad coffee along with good coffee that I can palate just about anything.

 

[John P]

Here's my take.

Most pour over is poor, over and over and over again. Especially V60. You're better off with a beehive dripper or an older style three to five hole Kalita filter pour over. The majority of barista, including those in known shops, are not very skilled when it comes to pour over. Too fast. Improper grind. Improper extraction. You can't rush the process. For many of these shops, whether pour over, siphon, Chemex, etc., it's about "the show".

I remember when I went to speak at the SCAA in 2011 and I have never had so much improperly brewed pour over in my life. Vince Piccolo, head of 49th Parallel Coffee, said to a group of us to remind him to never have pour over at these events again. It was that bad.

So... consistency of batch brewers. Yes, much better than most barista. But an average shop, or an average shop who believes they are a "high end" shop would not or should not be doing pour over.

Redswing,

to the comment just made about having a large brewing system and then offering pour over.... bad, bad, bad idea. This is something we specifically talked about at the SCAA. You can't have both. Either you are an artisan quality shop that brews by the cup or you are not. A tiered system does not work. You brew by the cup because you are confident that it provides a better cup, and better service (this coffee was made just for you!). Single cup brewing is not for everyone. But having both sends mixed messages to both your staff and your customers. As Kyle Glanville said during his part of our presentation,

"Batch brewing in conjunction with by-the-cup will force by-the-cup to take a back seat. - Kyle G."

And what about pricing? Coffees served? You certainly would not have your best coffees batch brewed. And there needs to be a big difference in pricing. It's not always for the coffee. It's for the skill it takes to make it properly. And in my opinion, once any artisan by the cup coffee is served in a paper cup, it completely devalues that coffee. It should not just be a brewing method. It's an experience from start to finish, and in order to give the customer the greatest value, you have to care enough to spend time with them, and with the coffee. Share in the process. Share in the experience. Create something magical.

I've been doing siphon since 2007/2008 (when we installed our bar). Always in house, black, and served in ceramic. We started at $6 per cup and up, and now range from $8-$12 per cup (more for CoE or Gesha, etc.) I've brewed 8000+ cups on siphon, and I know what does and does not work... but you have to be fearless. You have to be "all in".

As far as single-cup brewing goes, the notion that it can't work is just not so. The most successful "by the cup only shops" only do it "by the cup". You have to change your paradigm. And it's certainly easier if it's something you are adding rather than taking away something else. If you want to do by the cup, don't ever offer batch brewed. It's that simple.

 

[John P]

Peter,

funny thing is, they've been doing pour over is Asia for well over 50 years, and they wonder what all the fuss is about. With most places having access to much better coffee, it's unfortunate they do not have the technique to match.

Rather than "do what the best shops are doing," be one of the best at what you do.

 

[peterjschmidt]

Rather than "do what the best shops are doing," be one of the best at what you do.

It never makes sense, does it, to cave into the perception of what the public thinks they want. They want great coffee, and think that a show at the coffee bar equates to that.

 

[John P]

The show is a bonus. It's like latte art. It's meaningless without great espresso, but when you have both, then you really have something special.

 

[slurp]

It comes down to what your customers want. Batch brewing is more consistent for sure. If a store has the sales for batch brewing they would be silly to not be doing it. Poor over has it place, if a shop is selling 85% espresso or iced drinks they may not have the sales to be batch brewing every 30 min. Also if a roaster has some bubba bubba limited edition that may good for poor over as many people may not want to pay the premium price.

Much easier to have consistent coffee with batch or poor over coffee, IMO