Cuppy''s

cbhooch

New member
Jan 19, 2007
1
0
Thinking about buying into the franchise of Cuppy''s. Just like to know if anyone has any good or bad things about this business.
 

Coffee Guy

New member
Oct 19, 2003
874
0
Seattle,Washington USA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they known by some other name before? I don't remember what it was, but it just changed recently. You must ask yourself, "Why did they change their name?" :wink:
 

cafemakers

New member
Nov 3, 2004
576
0
Coffee Guy said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they known by some other name before? I don't remember what it was, but it just changed recently. You must ask yourself, "Why did they change their name?" :wink:

Java Jo'z.

If you search for pending litigation and Better Business Bureau rating using that name, there will be no doubt as to "why."
 

coffee4me

New member
Jan 4, 2007
18
0
Here is what I have determined

I am also looking at a Cuppy's franchise. Here is what I have determined.

Java Joz had several licensees, not franchisees, who had paid a deposit to Java Joz. At least one of these individuals I think it was , Scooble, had been looking for a location for over a year. At some point in time Java Joz owner Ben Snowden found himself in trouble with the IRS. The IRS proceeded to seize all of Ben Snowden assets, including Java Joz.

At some point in time the licensees asked for their non refundable deposits back.

Last spring a group of investors purchased Java Joz assets from Ben Snowden with the graces of the IRS. The monies obviously went to the IRS and not to others further down the lein tree.

The new company, Cuppy's ,offered all existing Java Joz licensees to change over at no additional cost. Instead of continuing with his coffee shop plans Mr. Scooble launched a nasty internet slander campaign. His brother just so happens to have a very popular politcal blog site. Considering politics and slander are pretty much one in the same this should come as no surprise. Instead of proceeding on like a true businessman he choses defame with name calling backed up with no facts just emotion.

I have personally talked to three current Cuppy's owner who are very happy with their businesses and Cuppy's. These owners were contacted by me at random. They were not names given to me by Cuppy's.

Now I do realize it was bad for the Java Joz owner to have tax problems but based on what has been posted concerning the licensees, I doubt they would have recieved a refund even without Ben Snowden's personal problems. It is like putting a bid on a house. If you later decide to back out of the house you lose your earnest money.

The only remaining question out their concerns the appearance that Cuppy's is just Java Joz renamed, and that Ben Snowden is still involved. On paper it appears that this in not the case. However I realize it is pretty easy to hide behind paper.

Others have questioned why most of the Cuppy's staff and building are the same. I have never seen a business buyout situation where everything and everyone was disbanded. That is called bankruptcy not asset purchase.


Here are my facts and finding?

The IRS holds the trump card in all money disputes.
Why would you put a deposit on a coffee shop with no sight in mind?
In a binding contract non refundable usuallly means non refundable.
When dealing with large sums of money and/or large portions of one's assets run the money through an escrow agent.
 

equus007

New member
Apr 4, 2006
315
0
Austin, Tx
so

So essentialy Cuppy's/JavaJo's had a really nasty contract and now they are holding the fools that signed with then to it. While not illegal it still doesn't sound like a company I would want to be involved with. Scooble should have had a site before approaching Cuppy's. Cuppy's should not have offered a contract to someone with no location.
 

coffee4me

New member
Jan 4, 2007
18
0
Nasty Contract ? I don't think so

Signing a license or a franchise agreement with any company out there entitles you to certain things which cost the company money. They include site reveiws, build out plans for your site, access to lawyers who help you get the best lease etc...

I have personally owned two franchises outside the coffee industry and have read cover to cover the UFOC of at least 15 other popular companies and have never seen a refundable deposit offered. When you enter an agreement with one of these companies you better be very very serious, and have no doubts as to whether you are going to proceed. I know of an individual who has paid a large Pizza franchise $50,000 and now can't financially finish the deal. He is not going to get his money back. This same franchise has approched me to purchase these franchise rights for the $50,000 because his time to open a store as specified in his contract will expire shortly.


You guys critic these companies like what they are doing is a hobby. All successfull franchise companies are run buy serious business people out to do one thing. MAKE MONEY!!!! The owners are not out there to run a lifestyle firm that breaks even every year. If you think Starbucks is out there to save the environment, and sponsor "cute" community events and buy beans in a socially conscience manner just because it is the right thing to do you are wrong. Even though it may be right thing to do the ultimate reason is because of something called profit. By promoting these things people feel good about a $6 Cafe Mocha. You the buyer don't think about $6, instead you feel good because you helped a coffee bean farmer earn a decent wage. If you call $4 a day a good wage.


So to say they made them sign a nasty contract is bogus. His terms were consistant with any UFOC I have seen. Additionally I don't think Java Joz forged Scoobles name and stole $25000 out of bank account. He wrote them a check and now is not man enough to follow through.
 

John P

New member
Jan 5, 2007
1,045
0
Salt Lake City
The franchise mindset presents a problem, it's more about looking for an easy way, about a "money-making venture". It's never about the coffee.
8)
 

ElPugDiablo

New member
Jul 16, 2004
991
0
Hartford and New Haven, CT
Re: Nasty Contract ? I don't think so

coffee4me said:
Signing a license or a franchise agreement with any company out there entitles you to certain things which cost the company money. They include site reveiws, build out plans for your site, access to lawyers who help you get the best lease etc...

I have personally owned two franchises outside the coffee industry and have read cover to cover the UFOC of at least 15 other popular companies and have never seen a refundable deposit offered. When you enter an agreement with one of these companies you better be very very serious, and have no doubts as to whether you are going to proceed. I know of an individual who has paid a large Pizza franchise $50,000 and now can't financially finish the deal. He is not going to get his money back. This same franchise has approched me to purchase these franchise rights for the $50,000 because his time to open a store as specified in his contract will expire shortly.


You guys critic these companies like what they are doing is a hobby. All successfull franchise companies are run buy serious business people out to do one thing. MAKE MONEY!!!! The owners are not out there to run a lifestyle firm that breaks even every year. If you think Starbucks is out there to save the environment, and sponsor "cute" community events and buy beans in a socially conscience manner just because it is the right thing to do you are wrong. Even though it may be right thing to do the ultimate reason is because of something called profit. By promoting these things people feel good about a $6 Cafe Mocha. You the buyer don't think about $6, instead you feel good because you helped a coffee bean farmer earn a decent wage. If you call $4 a day a good wage.


So to say they made them sign a nasty contract is bogus. His terms were consistant with any UFOC I have seen. Additionally I don't think Java Joz forged Scoobles name and stole $25000 out of bank account. He wrote them a check and now is not man enough to follow through.
Cuppy? Never heard of them. Maybe they are well known in your area, but not in Northeast. I can open a Kuppy and copied their concept down to the bathroom sinks and no one will notice it.

In a way you are right, it is all about making money. Too many new comers came with a romantic dream and never bother to be hard nose about number crunching. I for one will not give up a percentage of my revenues to an unknown who in my mind offer me nothing. The number just doesn't make any sense.
 

equus007

New member
Apr 4, 2006
315
0
Austin, Tx
etc

Agreed that businesses exist to make money and I often defend franchises, so long as you understand exactly what it is you are buying, but 25K is a massive charge for using their contacts. My first shop cost half that to open and if you are too lazy/unknowledgeable to go out and do the legwork yourself then your business deserves to and probably will fail...and even if it succeeds can you really call that YOUR success...or are you just a tool lining someone else's pockets with a portion of the profits that could well have been yours?

It s been stated more than once on this site:

Coffee shops are not a good "starter business". It is very risky, competitive and very labor intensive. If all you really want is to be able to say "I am a small business owner" then find something easier.
 

John P

New member
Jan 5, 2007
1,045
0
Salt Lake City
The Wisdom of a caffeinated mind:

equus007 wrote
Coffee shops are not a good "starter business". It is very risky, competitive and very labor intensive. If all you really want is to be able to say "I am a small business owner" then find something easier.
:-D
 

coffee4me

New member
Jan 4, 2007
18
0
OK.. I have been involved in and owned small business for over thirty years. Some franchised and some not. Some in the food/beverage industry others not. They have all been successful...some more so than others. However, for those of you who seem to think that coffee industry is on some higher plateau I hate to inform you that it is not. All successfull endevours require lots of hard work and dedication to succeed.


Oh...for the record Cuppy's franchise fee is not $25000 and their monthly royalties are actually very low.

And....for the one whom accused me of being "lazy/unknowledgeable" I will have a prime location with tax incentives up and running and making profits while your still planning. Why?? because I can identify a concept and then use their experience in bringing in the best vendors. I don't want to take a year or more to find them. A good franchise with connections can get me into a better location than I can find for myself. Ever wonder why the best strip malls are filled before they open? Those stalls were leased a year before they ever broke ground. So plan away...with the right franchise I can be up and running and more than pay for the franchise fee before your even open.

Just for the record I am not saying Cuppy's is my choice because I will probably select a different company.
 

equus007

New member
Apr 4, 2006
315
0
Austin, Tx
ahem

As I said I too have run/owned both independant and franchise, and I never accused you personaly of being unknowledgable(none of the post was directed at you, just general sentiment). I also do not believe coffee is on a higher palateau, it is exactly the same as a lot of other industries, however, as with every other industry I would rather shop at a place that is owned by someone more interested in producing a quality product first and making a big bucks second, be it coffee, computers or cell phones. I don't eat Taco Bell when I can get a better taco at the taqueria next door for the same price. I also have no problem admitting that it makes me feel good to give my money to the localy owned merchant.

Franchises are also limiting. I currently work for one and have finaly convinced them to ease up on their rules. Suprise, suprise daily sales are still climbing. As I age I more and more grow to detest the culture of mediocrity which the US has grown to accept. When I get coffee in the morning I want the best coffee I can get for a reasonable price, not the best coffee they can reasonably produce on a grand scale for a resaonable profit. There is a difference. You can taste it.

Major franchises have issues with catering to regional variances in taste as well. Thankfully this is something I have noticed changing of late. McD's in the NE serves lobster McNuggets and Subway had a carnitas sub in the SouthWest. It is nice to see them paying attention to their customers.

Coffee franchises in particular have major problems with freshness of product whereas my independant shop got to serve coffee roasted yesterday.

In the end I think the market is open for both to exist. I also think there is room for the non-coffee businessmen as well. Franchises have their pros and cons but I still stand by the belief that if you can do it yourself do it.

I pulled the 25K figure out my butt. What are their fees?

P.S. I opened my first shop in six weeks...because I already knew the industry and what I was doing. I didn't have to pay someone to tell me where to put it or which suppliers to go with. Knowledge is power and knowing is half the battle. Go JOE!
 

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