My Foray Into Espresso

[ProfC8H10N402]

Greetings all,

Having been inducted into the world of espresso after having tried the mystical elixir and nursing a hefty Starbucks penchant, I now seek an espresso machine.

Originally attracted to the entry-level Breville Espresso Roma, I then researched the Breville Barista Express (BES860XL) with integrated conical burr grinder. This machine appears to be the most practical as it obviates the need to purchase an stand-alone grinder and is complete with a pre-infusion feature and single and dual wall filters.

As cost is an obvious factor, it appears on the Breville site with a MSRP of $699.99; an opportunity, however, to purchase the Barista Express for $525.00 has presented itself.

So, given these facts, what do you guys think? Killer deal? Or wrong direction entirely?

 

[PinkRose]

Hello "ProfC8H10N402"

Welcome!

You have an interesting user name for this forum.

I did a Google search, and luckily, it wasn't a model number for something that you're selling.

C8H10N402 is the chemical forumla for caffeine!

Welcome!

Rose

 

[shadow745]

That would be a decent machine for starting out, but I'd say it wouldn't be long before your skill overrides the machine. Breville has slowly been getting better and is listening to what people want. Their high end dual boiler ($1,100~) seems to doing quite well. For the longest time the Achilles heel in their line-up was the thermoblock heating systems and now they have introduced a thermocoil in at least 1 model below the dual boiler. This should increase temperature consistency quite a bit. Check out the video on this one...

Crew Review: Breville BES840XL - YouTube

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

Hello "ProfC8H10N402"

Welcome!

You have an interesting user name for this forum.

I did a Google search, and luckily, it wasn't a model number for something that you're selling.

C8H10N402 is the chemical forumla for caffeine!

Welcome!

Rose

Ahh, yes, I forgot to mention a passion for organic chemistry in addition to that for coffee .

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

That would be a decent machine for starting out, but I'd say it wouldn't be long before your skill overrides the machine. Breville has slowly been getting better and is listening to what people want. Their high end dual boiler ($1,100~) seems to doing quite well. For the longest time the Achilles heel in their line-up was the thermoblock heating systems and now they have introduced a thermocoil in at least 1 model below the dual boiler. This should increase temperature consistency quite a bit.

Do you think the thermocoil equipped 840XL is a better buy than the Barista Express, with it's integrated grinder?

 

[shadow745]

I'd have to believe the 840XL is the better buy. An integrated grinder isn't going to increase espresso quality... the heating system definitely will.

The grinder they put in the 860XL is the run-of-the-mill conical burr type. That machine offers convenience in a stylish package, but it's more form over function.

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

I'd have to believe the 840XL is the better buy. An integrated grinder isn't going to increase espresso quality... the heating system definitely will.

The grinder they put in the 860XL is the run-of-the-mill conical burr type. That machine offers convenience in a stylish package, but it's more form over function.

Additional research has revealed that newer Barista Express models are now equipped with a thermocoil as opposed to a thermoblock. Would this revelation now justify purchase of the Barista Express?

 

[shadow745]

If you're dead set on getting that particular machine then go for it, but do be sure you order/receive the improved version. Also, use standard (non-pressurized) baskets with it to maximize potential.

I do give Breville kudos for constantly trying to improve their products instead of simply resting on their laurels.

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

If you're dead set on getting that particular machine then go for it, but do be sure you order/receive the improved version. Also, use standard (non-pressurized) baskets with it to maximize potential.

I do give Breville kudos for constantly trying to improve their products instead of simply resting on their laurels.

Alas, the plot thickens. After having payed a visit to a local espresso specialty boutique and being informed of the chasmic differences between an entry level jack-of-all-trades machine like the Breville and a bona fide espresso machine like the Rancillio Silvia (699.99) and the slightly more affordable Capri (399.99; locally imported brand), both of which are equipped with non-pressurized baskets, I've changed plans entirely.

I sampled shots from the Breville as well as both the Rancilio and Capri and would have to concede that Breville's shots pale in comparison to those produced by the Italians. One remark that I would made, however, is that the Rancilio's shot was slightly more nuanced than that of the Capri.

Does the marginal superiority of the Rancillio warrant its additional cost (plus that of the higher-end grinder?), or would an entry level non-pressurized machine (i.e. the Capri) bode just as well?

Thanks for you input!

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

Bumpzoid...

 

[eldub]

I'm guessing your financial situation and personal taste should be the deciding factors.

Taste is important to me and we have no children, so I know which way I'd prolly go. As far as grinders go, that's still up in the air for consideration, imo. Which grinder was used to make the shots in the specialty boutique shop?

lw

 

[shadow745]

There are alot of commercial grade grinders on the market. I was quite pleased with a Nuova Simonelli MDX. Very affordable, 64mm flat burrs, decent doser and a fantastic stepless micrometric adjustment. Good for medium volume. The only grinder I would have even considered as its replacement would be the Mahlkonig K30, mainly because of the doserless design and speed.

For home use I can honestly say the Baratza/Mahlkonig Vario is really hard to beat. The grind quality is excellent, but my favorite part is the lack of retention. There may be .2-.3 grams left behind, which is unheard of for espresso range grinders.

 

[ProfC8H10N402]

Aha, here we delve even deeper into the murky waters of my dilemma. The grinder was branded like the espresso machine: "Bari Avanti semi-auto Espresso Grinder". Further research has indicated that the "Avanti" nameplate is in fact a local rebrand imported from Italy. As per the price, the espresso machine is $399.99 while the grinder, if purchased with the machine, is $240.00. Is this a reasonable price for a grinder?

How, aside from the enlarged portafilter, does one differentiate this machine from the ubiquitous Silvia?

 

[shadow745]

Honestly we'd have to know more about these items to offer more advice. Pics would be helpful (and suggest alot) as I couldn't find much of anything on the Internet regarding the brand. Price-wise that's not much for either piece of equipment.

A commercial sized portafilter is more of a marketing strategy as that "suggests" a machine is commercial in quality. Some companies also maximize interchange by offering the same parts for home and commercial models. Tampers, baskets, etc. are readily available for the "standard" 58mm size, but that surely doesn't qualify it as being commercial in itself. 58mm is no guarantee of shot quality and I actually prefer smaller.