Probat vs. Diedrich

[Musicphan]

Both of those roasters are excellent... just make sure you have a local rep that can work with whatever brand you choose. I personally decided against the Probat due to the premium price they ask for their machine and a disappointing sales expereince... it took 3 contacts to get anyone to call me back. I guess a 5K roaster was too small for them to care. Diedrich's appear to be very well built machine and very 'polished' and professional. From everyone I spoke too the IR burners make little differences but certainly everyone agrees there were slight differences than a traditional open flame (although it would be interesting to see blind cupping results). I personally narrowed it down the San Fran and US Roaster... and placing my US Roaster on order hopefully next week. Their price was right, all made in America (part/service was key to me) and built like a tank. They are also only about a 5 hour drive from me so I had the pleasure of spending a morning with Dan & crew really going over their machines. That's my 2 cents... good luck!

 

[elguapo]

Both of those roasters are excellent... just make sure you have a local rep that can work with whatever brand you choose. I personally decided against the Probat due to the premium price they ask for their machine and a disappointing sales expereince... it took 3 contacts to get anyone to call me back. I guess a 5K roaster was too small for them to care. Diedrich's appear to be very well built machine and very 'polished' and professional. From everyone I spoke too the IR burners make little differences but certainly everyone agrees there were slight differences than a traditional open flame (although it would be interesting to see blind cupping results). I personally narrowed it down the San Fran and US Roaster... and placing my US Roaster on order hopefully next week. Their price was right, all made in America (part/service was key to me) and built like a tank. They are also only about a 5 hour drive from me so I had the pleasure of spending a morning with Dan & crew really going over their machines. That's my 2 cents... good luck!

I felt the same way about my Probat calls, not unhelpful, but not super excited to tell me why it's better. But I've had many great cups of coffee roasted on Probats, so that can't be overlooked.

Either way thanks for sharing, you're not the first to suggest SF in the thread, USR also seems to be solid...I have a feeling this thread will end up making the decision harder, but it's best to have all the facts.

Thanks

 

[Amhas]

I saw this thread and wondered why the San Franciscan wasn't mentioned here at all. I too am reviewing rosters except I'm looking at much smaller ones than a 12 kilo. Is it wrong for me to ask here on this thread how the San Franciscan compares with respect to the Probat and Diedrich roasters?

Jerry, I weighed my decision between a SF and Diedrich. I really like the guys at SF, they were extremely nice and very helpful. I choose my IR1 for the size over going larger or smaller like the SF1, but if all things had been equal I would have likely gone with the SF just because I got a good vibe from Bill and Matt there at SF. I think the SF machines are very nice and certainly capable of producing good coffee it all comes down to learning your roaster and what fits your needs.

 

[chast]

San Francisco are excellent roasters as well as US Roaster Corp.

 

[JohnD18]

This is a nice thread thats going on here. I am researching roasters and will actually be out at the Diedrich facility in March to take a roasting seminar they give. I am excited to learn about their machines and learn the ins and outs of the unit.

Also, since we're on the topic of Probat roasters, I have a question about them that I really hope someone has some insight on because I just don't get it:
If you look into some of these big craft roasters (Blue Bottle, Stumptown, etc) they all seem to use "vintage Probat" machines that are from the '50s. Why are they all drawn to these machines? Is it just a hipster thing, like, oh we're so unique with our old school roasters and all, or is there a real value to roasting on that antiquated equipment? I am guessing the former, but it seems like it would be so much extra work to fix the thing up.

 

[elguapo]

This is a nice thread thats going on here. I am researching roasters and will actually be out at the Diedrich facility in March to take a roasting seminar they give. I am excited to learn about their machines and learn the ins and outs of the unit.

Also, since we're on the topic of Probat roasters, I have a question about them that I really hope someone has some insight on because I just don't get it:
If you look into some of these big craft roasters (Blue Bottle, Stumptown, etc) they all seem to use "vintage Probat" machines that are from the '50s. Why are they all drawn to these machines? Is it just a hipster thing, like, oh we're so unique with our old school roasters and all, or is there a real value to roasting on that antiquated equipment? I am guessing the former, but it seems like it would be so much extra work to fix the thing up.

I'm happy about this thread too, people have been posting great comments.

That's a great point you bring up about those bigger, well known roasters, what is it about those vintage machines? I always assumed it was a street cred thing about having a cool old machine, but there must be something else to it. It's definitely not much cheaper to get the older machines. It makes me wonder if there's a reason they're avoiding the new Probats, or do they just not publicize it when they buy a new machine?

 

[JerryB]

Drum materials

San Francisco are excellent roasters as well as US Roaster Corp.

One of the things I'm trying to decide about is the type of material the drums should be made of. Some roasters have cast iron, some carbon steel, and some stainless. I asked Roger at Roasters Exchange (US Roaster) what they thought about this and why they use Stainless Steel. Here is his answer...[FONT=&quot] "We use stainless because we fabricate cocoa and nut roasters as well and the contact surfaces for both MUST be food grade (something that won’t hold bacteria). We feel that stainless is cleaner, higher quality, doesn’t add excess stress on the motor because of the weight, and doesn’t impart flavor from previous roasts."[/FONT]

I ask you roasters with experience in the matter, does the carbon steel drums hold in and/or pass along noticeable flavors form the previous roasts?

I want to hear what others think about this. So if your following this thread, will you please chime in on the topic?

Thanks in advance,
Jerry

 

[peterjschmidt]

Jerry, for coffee, the drum material has little, if any, bearing. After seasoning a new drum it will not impart flavors from roast to roast.


John, my guess is that the older Probats were better machines and more overbuilt than the new ones. I also don't think there would be that much to rebuild an old roaster for someone who knows their way around the mechanics of one.

 

[JohnD18]

Jerry, for coffee, the drum material has little, if any, bearing. After seasoning a new drum it will not impart flavors from roast to roast.


John, my guess is that the older Probats were better machines and more overbuilt than the new ones. I also don't think there would be that much to rebuild an old roaster for someone who knows their way around the mechanics of one.

I could see that. Ease of maintenance and simlicity of use? Its like maintaining a VW Bug vs a modern BMW.

 

[thCapn]

I have a friend with a roaster/retailer cafe in New Mexico and they went the vintage Probat route. Their rationale was all of the above: Built like a tank, cast iron drum, easy to maintain due to simplicity, and vintage/hipster cred. It cost quite a bit to refurbish and outfit for data logging.

 

[Hogfish]

Awesome thread. I roast on a Diedrich IR-1 and a Probat L-12 and love them both. Personally, I like to compare them to a Vespa and a Ducati; both being highly sought after, incredibly well made, and go completely different speeds. I have commonly heard the Diedrich referred to as a barge and a Probat or Giesen as a rocket ship. The Diedrich is great in slow developing roasts and is very consistent but you need to plan ahead at times because a major input can take 30 - 60 seconds for you to see the result of the input you made. My L-12 has 26 burner nozzles (crazy) and can run away from me in a hurry if I am not paying immediate attention to my inputs and monitering their immediate results. Obviously these are two machines that are very apart in terms of size, however, I am referring mostly to the theory I have learned from industry persons I really respect. The Diedrich seems to have an edge on slowly developing a light roast, IMHO.

The learning curve on dialing in a Probat is steeper in my opinion while the Diedrich is more forgiving. My IR-1 was made a few years ago, the Probat a quarter of a century ago; both invoke an immediate sense of quality with respect to manufacturing.

Data logging integration for my L-12 was a very simple process using Cropster. Their customer service has been superb.

As for customer service, I was a bit apprehensive when researching Diedrich prior to purchasing my roaster because of everything I read. I've owned it for nearly a year and they have been excellent. I was incredibly frustrated with Probat, 2 calls a week for three weeks before I got a response back (no lie). Once I got in touch with the right person, things have been fine. As one member noted, not overly excited but are there to help. I imagine they would be a bit sweeter if I was in the market to purchase a new roaster but who knows. Definitely an issue I will have to revisit when if and when I outgrow my L-12.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Alex

 

[quantumbeancoffee]

I can attest to the poor customer support from Diedrich. I have been waiting a a price quote from Desirae (Sales dept) for over 2 weeks. Multiple phone calls and emails with no response. When I called, the gentlemen on the phone said that her assistant quit over the holidays. Still disappointing that Diedrich has no interest in the small coffee roaster. Seems like every roaster must start somewhere but Diedrich has no interests in the small guy. I was able to talk with Dan from Us Roasters and Mike from San Franciscan within one day of calling.

 

[Amhas]

I can attest to the poor customer support from Diedrich. I have been waiting a a price quote from Desirae (Sales dept) for over 2 weeks. Multiple phone calls and emails with no response. When I called, the gentlemen on the phone said that her assistant quit over the holidays. Still disappointing that Diedrich has no interest in the small coffee roaster. Seems like every roaster must start somewhere but Diedrich has no interests in the small guy. I was able to talk with Dan from Us Roasters and Mike from San Franciscan within one day of calling.

It's funny because I got a VERY disapointing response from US Roasters. I asked for a quote 4 or 5 times with no quote I finally told him thanks for helping me narrow down my decision and he was VERY rude to me in response to that email, telling me and I quote "good I'm glad you are going else where". Diedrich was ok at first with ok response time when I initially contacted them but then there was a change in sales and Amy contacted me and she was amazing following up and answering my questions. So I guess it is just all who you get sometimes. That said the Holidays are tough and I know this from personal experience in my own life and daytime "real" job. Not that I'm defending Diedrich it's just that I always try to give some latitude at these times.

 

[Wen]

Poor customer support from D.

Diedrich gives very good support.

 

[KeepItTidy]

Hey everyone,
IMO drum material is important WRT dispersion of heat but not much else. The thicker and heavier the drum the more evenly heat will be spread.

A few things i can comment on working on the D-IR12, Being in africa (thousands of miles away from their factory) we have to heavily rely on their after sales service.
In the 2 years of operation our machine has operated extremely well and any troubles we have had were sorted out with a (international) phone call and myself.
I am VERY happy with the after sales service I have gotten from D (over the last 2 years)

Last year I attended a roasting course hosted by my Deidrich himself.
He went over the reasons he uses IR burners over the others, why he uses certain materials in certain places. it was very informative and it made a lot of sense.
After a tour of the factory I was convinced that the D machines are a serious piece of equipment, so much so that I ordered a 50kg from them!