Those one way valve bags...

[omegapd]

Hey All,

I've noticed that if you take a bag of coffee- say the typical stuff like Millstone's or Starbucks from the grocery store in the one way valve bags- and put them in the freezer, in a day or so the bags get very hard, almost like a vacuum brick of coffee. Any idea what causes that?

Just curious and thanks in advance,

E.W.

 

[CCafe]

The one way valve only allows gas to flow out of the bag. Since your putting the beans in the freezer your cooling everything inside the bag down to 0F or possibly lower it means the air inside the bags is going to shrink to a small degree. Since that valve will not allow the air in the bag equalize with the ambient air in the freezer it pulls the bag in tight on the coffee like it has been vacuum packed. Same phenomenon happens in your car tire. If you put air in the tire when its 70F outside and drive to a place where it is 0F and let the car sit overnight without moving the next day the tire pressure is going to be lower a few PSI.

I wouldn't place coffee in freezer anyway. You are to store it in a cool, dry, and dark place. This doesn't mean the freezer. If you need to store the bean in freezer about the only time I would recommend it is if you were going for a long haul and knew that you wouldn't be able to resupply for months on end. Once you pull the bag out do not put it back in the freezer. Multiple refreezing will only make your product that much worse to consume.

 

[omegapd]

Excellent answer that makes perfect sense. Thank you.

I've recently come into a decent supply of coffee and hate to throw anything away, so the freezer is the best storage option for me now. I've done it for years with no mishaps. It's better than leaving them to sit out for a few weeks on the counter for my tastes...

E.W.

 

[caffe biscotto]

Nice explanation CCafe, thorough and easy to comprehend. :wink:

Omegapd, don't throw your coffee away. I freeze coffee too and don't notice the difference.

I worked for a European style naturally leavened bread bakery for thirteen years, learned all about quality of freshness when it came to bread. To this day, I can't stand any cheap store bread and won't even buy quality bread if it's more than a day or so old because I got the quality fresh stuff every day, right from the oven. We sold our day old breads almost half price because we knew the value wasn't there anymore. Funny thing, day old breads didn't last but an hour after we opened. Customers said it was as good as fresh to them.

True coffee connoisseurs would have you believe that your quality coffee isn't good after a couple of weeks, when to you and me, it's outstanding, even after a month. They're as spoiled on fresh coffee as I was on fresh bread.

Waste not want not!

 

[omegapd]

True coffee connoisseurs would have you believe that your quality coffee isn't good after a couple of weeks, when to you and me, it's outstanding, even after a month. They're as spoiled on fresh coffee as I was on fresh bread.

Yeah, I agree. Taste is a subjective thing anyway. I was born and grew up near Miami, FL and for that reason alone, Cafe Bustelo will always have a place in my coffee cabinet, especially brewed in a stovetop Moka pot. I'm sure some people will cringe at the thought of that, but I love it.

Thanks for the replies,

EW

 

[genecounts]

As someone new to roasting and having read well over 1000 posts on coffee Forums past few weeks this one thread does it for me.

Spent some time this weekend checking Walmart and Bed, Bath and Beyond checking canning supplies for one-way valve bags.....disappointed....
Lots of questions.
Wish all threads were half as enlightening, sensible, and succinct!
Thanks!

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

I am new to the coffee business and have started my own line... not whoring here just that I have a question about these valve bags too.

First of all, does that valve allow some aroma to escape and is that a bad thing? Personally I think if that is what makes my coffee smell great I love it, but maybe it is just the processing.

Second, my valve is bigger than let's say, the Starbucks bag. Is one kind better?

 

[Alun_evans]

There are many types of valve- internal, external, ring plastic, flap flap etc... some are on the side of the opackaging, some on top...some even on the bottom. What makes a valve what it is is the ability to release oxygen one-way, not let anything in. To this end aroma often comes out with the positive pressure just after roasting, then will remain in the bag once the release from the beans has stopped. Basically once the beans are de-gassed most of the aroma eill remain inert until the beans are ground. Of course if you retail packs of coffee in store you will often see cutomers squeezing the bags to force what pressure is left out to smell the aroma!

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

This makes perfect sense, thank you! The aroma is only on the sample bags I have full of ground coffee, not beans.

Also, I may have a Pavlovian thing going on too. Just the sight of these bags gets a whiff on happening for me.

Here's another question about bags: Are these bags recyclable? I was thinking this might be a great selling point.

 

[Alun_evans]

I like (and have myself) looked into the idea of using recyclable "buckets" foor wholesale customers. However, we have "binned" this pending further research on the idea. I know that a roaster in London who is pretty much top dog for quality there does use this idea and, seeing it seems to work, it has prompted me to look into it again.

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

Well I just returned from CoffeeFest in Chicago and it was fabulous. I learned a ton and drank some great coffee, including the rare and legendary Luwak!

Many bag suppliers on the tradeshow floor as you can imagine, and not a recyclable bag to be found. All said if they had one they would be millionaires. Since they are foil on the outside and resin lined, even polywhatever, they come under the category of pretty much unfit for one bin or another. Plus toss in that plastic valve and you really cannot classify them as ready for recycling.

The only possible solution is re-using, or a package that is usable for another purpose, but a tin is not air tight and unit costs need to be kept under control for most of us.

Well looky here. Over one weekend she turned from a coffee drinker into a coffee retailer.

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

To clarify, there are of course recyclable bags. The paper ones that look like the ones you barf in on the plane.

I do not count those as they look like crud at retail.

Cheers!

 

[caffe biscotto]

Hey Lisa, thanks for the feedback on the show you attended. I know what you mean about the "barf bags". I definitely prefer zip lock type bags and have reused them time and time again.

So, how did you like the Luwak coffee??? Is it as overrated as I think it is??? LOL.

 

[CCafe]

Well I just returned from CoffeeFest in Chicago and it was fabulous. I learned a ton and drank some great coffee, including the rare and legendary Luwak!

Many bag suppliers on the tradeshow floor as you can imagine, and not a recyclable bag to be found. All said if they had one they would be millionaires. Since they are foil on the outside and resin lined, even polywhatever, they come under the category of pretty much unfit for one bin or another. Plus toss in that plastic valve and you really cannot classify them as ready for recycling.

The only possible solution is re-using, or a package that is usable for another purpose, but a tin is not air tight and unit costs need to be kept under control for most of us.

Well looky here. Over one weekend she turned from a coffee drinker into a coffee retailer.

You've obviously have never seen a Illy 6.6 pound tin. Massive buggers and the lid is a small hand screw. With the right equipment a person could hand distribute coffee in something like that the same way Illy does.

I was also going to say about recycling bags with one way valves. You might want to check with the manufacture of the bag or find out who makes the valves to see what the failure rate is on the valve itself. Those valves are not exactly built like a tank so most manufactures really have intended them for 1 use only.

 

[coffeeloverlisa]

The valve itself, being a small plastic thingee to use the technical term, must be prone to defect. How are consumers to know of theirs is doing the trick? This would be a great topic for my new online blog!

I can just see them going through the aisles of Publix, or *GASP*, Starbux, squeezing bags of java to see if the bags of Sumatra fart or not!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!