APPRENTICE WANTED

[topher]

I have been to almost every coffee shop in the area searching for an apprentice. I have posted it on this forum and several other job sites. I have gotten no response at all. I will post this one last time...I NEED AN APPRENTICE IN SOUTH FLORIDA. If anyone knows of someone who wants to learn everything I know about roasting and get paid to do so have them contact me.
Thank you,
Christopher Conover

 

[Shep]

You're killin' me Topher. You have no idea how bad I want to learn the craft on a commercial level. You also have no idea how much my wife and I want to move to Florida. But...we have about 3 more years before our last child is out of the house. Maybe I could commute. Let's see, If I flew home once a week, how much of my paycheck would be left?

It really is kind of sad that here I am, a mature (46), and I believe quality employee (I have worked for GE for the past 20 years!) and I can't even pay someone to teach me to roast on a commercial machine where I live. And you can't even find an interested person where you are.

Good luck to you, and by the way, while I do not check this board often, I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.

Shep

 

[Fresh Roaster]

Are you anywhere near Ft. Wayne? I can show you a husband and wife who knew nothing about coffee roasting and are now selling more than 2000 lbs. a month at retail. There is much voodoo in the art of coffee roasting. Roasters will tell you it's an art. It isn't. It can be recreated easily and far better than any human can do. A roastmaster can't analyze water content on the fly but a computer and laser can. Let technology guide you not the ramblings of a "roastmaster".

 

[demetri]

I have some great prints of some original artwork that are flawless in their duplication. They still don't hold a candle to the original arts.

I think it's probably the same with baking. Large scale commercial bakers turn an art into a process and produce some really good quality products. They always pale in comparison to the bread and deserts that my mother makes.

In a large scale automated process you end up with much of the same thing time and again. My mother gets bored of doing exactly the same thing over and over again and frequently tweaks her recipes.

It's only Voodoo when you don't understand what's going on. Calling it ramblings is also plain rude suggesting that your competitor doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Fresh Roaster]

No offense Demtri, but that's somewhat contradictory. On one hand, grandma's apple pie is a work of art but if she made 10,000 of them a week it isn't art anymore, but the same standard doesn't apply to coffee roasting? How come someone roasting 25,000 pounds of coffee a week isn't thrown under the same train so to speak?

The point is that if a product is entirely re-createable isn't any differentiation simply "voodoo"? I agree there can be only one Mona Lisa but putting masterpeices of art in the same category as a commodity food product is pretty far out there. Is there something romantic about drinking your morning coffee knowing that some guy sat faithfully by his Probat with wooden spoon in hand carefully listening, tending to and caring for those precious beans? Perhaps, but at what cost and how is that even done if one is churning out thousands upon thousands of pounds per day?

 

[demetri]

At 10,000 apple pies a week it's no longer just Grandma making it but Grandma managing a process and a team. She is still in control, it’s not a turn-key scenario.

The local brewmaster takes the same pride, produces a huge volume, and of course will claim their work to be art. Ultimately the consumer decides what they want and their not always impressed with the local brew master’s seasonal changes to his recipe.

My only objection is to calling someone's livelihood voodoo or their knowledge ramblings. There's no place for that here.

Plus I believe the point to this thread was "Hey does anyone want to learn how to roast coffee beans and make that a career?", and "Hey, I'd like to learn how to roast coffee beans and make that my career".

I'm sure your machine does a fine job of roasting the coffee beans and I wish you great success in your venture. Just as I wish anyone in this industry achieves great success.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Are you anywhere near Ft. Wayne? I can show you a husband and wife who knew nothing about coffee roasting and are now selling more than 2000 lbs. a month at retail. There is much voodoo in the art of coffee roasting. Roasters will tell you it's an art. It isn't. It can be recreated easily and far better than any human can do. A roastmaster can't analyze water content on the fly but a computer and laser can. Let technology guide you not the ramblings of a "roastmaster".

Can your system evaluates Huehuetenango from different green suppliers and determines which supplier has the best quality and best value? Does it know how to spot past year crops that are baggy? Or beans that have too much or too little moisture content? Or beans that are fermented? How does your system tell beans that are specialty grade vs. premium grade? Can your system analyze green beans and come out with a profile that will get the most out of different Costa Rica from different micro-region? You can have all the laser and computer in the world, garbage in still means garbage out.

 

[Fresh Roaster]

Talking about roasting, not green sourcing. It's always your fallback though. :roll: And in the end of the day, I'll trust my broker more than a roaster. How many trips has Topher made to PNG or South America lately? :wink:

 

[demetri]

Obviously there is a lot more to good coffee than the roasting process. Even with the new technology it looks like there is still room for Voodoo.

Looks like this thread is getting off topic.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

Talking about roasting, not green sourcing. It's always your fallback though. :roll: And in the end of the day, I'll trust my broker more than a roaster. How many trips has Topher made to PNG or South America lately? :wink:

Without knowledge of green sourcing, you can't have good coffee. Trip to origin while nice, it not required, but knowledge is. If you want to trust your broker that is your business. I suppose to you all Colombians taste the same, so that sampling and cupping are not needed. Some of the brokers are very good salesman, while other are very good bean buyers, without knowledge, how do you know who is what? Personally I rather trust myself.

But let's talk about roasting, and blending. Does your machine know how to roast green from beginning of the season Colombia vs. mid season vs. end of the season of the same Colombian? How about does your machine know how to make a properly balanced espresso blend? There is art, and plenty of them in any culinary endeavor. Your machine may or may not be able to duplicate the same taste again and again. But how do you develop that taste in the first place? There are commodity like greene, and commodity coffee roasters out there, if that is the area you want to partake in, that is fine. But I like to be on the other end of the spectrum, I have tasted same green roasted by different roasters who know how to source green, and through years of experiences, have developed roasting profiles that are uniquely theirs. From the same beans, I get different but equally terrific coffee. I don't know about you, but I'll say that is art.

There is a place for precision and consistency, and I am the first one to admit I can use some help in that area, but even if I were to develop a roasting machine that can factor out all human imperfection I will never be presumptuous and arrogance to the point of saying by buying my machine anyone with no prior knowledge can be the best roaster out there in no time.

 

[Fresh Roaster]

I know virtually nothing about green coffee yet we were selected as the official roaster of the Kona Coffee Festival. Go figure.

 

[ElPugDiablo]

I know virtually nothing about green coffee yet we were selected as the official roaster of the Kona Coffee Festival. Go figure.

Great come back. Go figure this, none of the top 10 roasters, micros or macros as named by Food and Wine Magazine use your laser and computer.

You know I went to your web site, and I noticed you mentioned coffee is more complex than wine, that is very true, and yet you and only you have mastered this complexity and have packaged it all in your neat little machine and can make any layperson a roaster equals or better than the best out there. Your claim is as outlandish as someone claiming he knows nothing about grapes yet he came make the best wine in the world.

Just to be a bit of nic picking about a couple of points about your web site. Not all coffee taste at its best after 24 to 48 hours of de-gassing. Espresso usually require 96 to 120 of resting time after roasting. Green beans shelf life is less than "one year or longer before any noticeable degradation in quality occurs". You can of course disagree with me, but then you don't possess the ART of tasting, so what do you know?

 

[Temuri]

[quote:b9yf8hot]Great come back. Go figure this, none of the top 10 roasters, micros or macros as named by Food and Wine Magazine use your laser and computer.

[/quote:b9yf8hot]
It is funny: Good coffee, laser and computer. Can computers feel? Taste? Guess? smell and injoy? Be proud and happy because customers appriciate our job and love "our" coffee? No computer can take it from me.

 

[Baugo]

Oh to hear you guys. Topher, I’m in Indiana if it was not for my 4 children and wife I would come and roast with ya. Man the cups would be a flyin hehehe :-D :lol:

 

[topher]

What kids and wives aren't alowed in South Flordia...oh wait I get it you love the snow I understand...personally I can't imagine not being able to wear shorts in November