BunJava - New Coffeeshop - Floorplan

tlowing

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Jan 19, 2008
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Cocoa Beach, FL

CCafe

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Aug 11, 2004
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Des Moines, Iowa
I guess the first question I have regards your roaster. Do you really want to roast? I think you could save a lot of time and money if you were to start out with Roasting company like BocaJava, you might want to talk to Topher. Then you could expand your business if its prospering.

Otherwise the space you have allocated for the roaster seems a tad small. Plus I don't think I would let anyone sit that close to it. Might want to check if you are going to need an afterburner for your roaster too.

As for the rest of the layout it looks rather nice. What I didn't see was a grease trap for your kitchen. They are very expensive to install and the men in suits seem to keep bumping up the overall size requirements. So there not cheap either.
 
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tlowing

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Cocoa Beach, FL
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Thanks for the feedback. The roaster is the biggest optional item. I don't NEED it to start but I would like to get more into the roasting end over time since the few local folks doing it have been doing well. Plus doing that sort of stuff after the fact is almost impossible. The roaster model is an Ambex YM-5. The 5'x9' footprint is from the installation manual requirements. I'm looking at Latitude 23.5 out of Sarasota right now to supply my roasted beans unless I find a better option.

Before I signed the lease I added an addendum making the landlord responsible for the grease trap and bringing gas into the space. He supposedly already installed the trap and I just have to tie into it.

Trevor


CCafe said:
I guess the first question I have regards your roaster. Do you really want to roast? I think you could save a lot of time and money if you were to start out with Roasting company like BocaJava, you might want to talk to Topher. Then you could expand your business if its prospering.

The space you have allocated for the roaster seems a tad small. Plus I don't think I would let anyone sit that close to it. Might want to check if you are going to need an afterburner for your roaster too.

As for the rest of the layout it looks rather nice. What I didn't see was a grease trap for your kitchen. They are very expensive to install and the men in suits seem to keep bumping up the overall size requirements. So there not cheap either.
 

ElPugDiablo

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Jul 16, 2004
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Hartford and New Haven, CT
4500 will not be enough for a new La Marzocco, I am not sure about Nuova Simonelli 2 group Appia. But I think it will cost a bit more than 4500. If you are buying an used one, just make sure you have a good espresso tech nearby, and be prepared to pay 500 per visit. Do you need an afterburner for your roaster? Also, you need to have your water tested and add water treatment and or sediment filter for your coffee brewer, espresso machine and maybe ice machine.

My guess is that you are thinking about getting a good amount of non-commercial equipment. You really want to re-think that. I would suggest at least a commercial refrigerator, a commercial under counter dish washer and a commercial toaster.

As far as layout, the door next to the red fire distinguisher is going to hit some one grabbing stuff out of refrigerator/freezer. You might need to move the door by at least 1 foot, more like 24 inches, taking away some of the space where you sink is at. Your front counter is very spacious, so losing a bit over the sink should not be a problem. Also, is that a hand sink? If not, I'd move it in between the espresso machine and blender station. If it is, you might want to add a sink between those two stations.
 
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tlowing

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I'll most likely go with a new Simonelli. I should be able to pick up second hand refs/fridges and some of the other stuff if possible. If you have any equipment recommendations I would appreciate it.

I was planning on putting an inline water filter/treatment system upstream of anything going to the kitchen. Any recommendations on water treatment systems and where to sent the water for analysis?

I'll move the hand sink when I get home and tell the architect. Brilliant idea.

The thing that looks like a door is one of those half-height swing-out doors. I'll change the swing direction. The PDF file has my attempt at a 3D view.

Thanks for all the input!


ElPugDiablo said:
4500 will not be enough for a new La Marzocco, I am not sure about Nuova Simonelli 2 group Appia. But I think it will cost a bit more than 4500. If you are buying an used one, just make sure you have a good espresso tech nearby, and be prepared to pay 500 per visit. Do you need an afterburner for your roaster? Also, you need to have your water tested and add water treatment and or sediment filter for your coffee brewer, espresso machine and maybe ice machine.

My guess is that you are thinking about getting a good amount of non-commercial equipment. You really want to re-think that. I would suggest at least a commercial refrigerator, a commercial under counter dish washer and a commercial toaster.

As far as layout, the door next to the red fire distinguisher is going to hit some one grabbing stuff out of refrigerator/freezer. You might need to move the door by at least 1 foot, more like 24 inches, taking away some of the space where you sink is at. Your front counter is very spacious, so losing a bit over the sink should not be a problem. Also, is that a hand sink? If not, I'd move it in between the espresso machine and blender station. If it is, you might want to add a sink between those two stations.
 

ElPugDiablo

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Hartford and New Haven, CT
Buying used equipment is just like buying used car, you need to make sure you don't buy someone else's lemon. You don't go with a brand, you go with what the dealer has on hand, and condition. Our used dishwasher with repair bills and aggravation is just about the price of a new one. But no way we can afford a $10,000 dual temp pastry case, so we bought one on eBay for $2,000 and we have 3 trouble free years with it.

As far as equipment recommendation. If you are dead serious about the quality of your espresso I suggest you get a different espresso grinder. A well built and well maintained grinder can make a world of difference to your espresso quality. I have a lot of experience with MDX, and unfortunately, I have came to know it's flaw all too well. If you are on a tight budget, I would suggest a used Mazzer Major. As long as it is not abused, all you have to do is change the burrs and you are good to go. You can find them on eBay going for about $300 to $500 - less than a new MDX, and a better grinder. Mazzer Major is what I have at my shop in Hartford. If you want a really really good grinder be prepare to dig deeper into your bank account. Another forum participant, our very own Anne has a Anfim Super Caimano. It is a great grinder, but is it expensive.

Regarding moving the sink in between espresso machine and the blender station. It will most likely be used for rinsing blender bowls and milk pitchers. I won't designated it as a hand sink, but a work sink. I'd also buy a deeper sink so water won't splatter every where. And I'd keep a small hand sink near the half height swinging door.

Speaking of the half height swinging door, you might as will just not have one because soon or later someone will be on the wrong side of the swing.

Regarding water. You can contact cirqua and have your water tested for free. They are very knowledgeable, and have great system. Of course they want to sell you their system, but in my case the people at the company was honest to a fault. They told me I don't need anything other than a simple sediment filter. I was lucky, but Florida, at least Boca, has terrible water.
 

topher

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Aug 14, 2003
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Boca Raton
tlowing I'm a few hours south of you...when you get closer to roasting hit me up maybe I can throw some pointers your way...I have used the roaster you are looking at..and by the way good choice it kicks butt! Oh well good luck! :wink:
 
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tlowing

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Cocoa Beach, FL
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I updated the drawing and spreadsheet. Thanks for the info. If anything else comes to mind I'd be grateful.

I lived halfway between Hartford and Springfield back in the early 90s for about a year.

ElPugDiablo said:
Buying used equipment is just like buying used car, you need to make sure you don't buy someone else's lemon. You don't go with a brand, you go with what the dealer has on hand, and condition. Our used dishwasher with repair bills and aggravation is just about the price of a new one. But no way we can afford a $10,000 dual temp pastry case, so we bought one on eBay for $2,000 and we have 3 trouble free years with it.

As far as equipment recommendation. If you are dead serious about the quality of your espresso I suggest you get a different espresso grinder. A well built and well maintained grinder can make a world of difference to your espresso quality. I have a lot of experience with MDX, and unfortunately, I have came to know it's flaw all too well. If you are on a tight budget, I would suggest a used Mazzer Major. As long as it is not abused, all you have to do is change the burrs and you are good to go. You can find them on eBay going for about $300 to $500 - less than a new MDX, and a better grinder. Mazzer Major is what I have at my shop in Hartford. If you want a really really good grinder be prepare to dig deeper into your bank account. Another forum participant, our very own Anne has a Anfim Super Caimano. It is a great grinder, but is it expensive.

Regarding moving the sink in between espresso machine and the blender station. It will most likely be used for rinsing blender bowls and milk pitchers. I won't designated it as a hand sink, but a work sink. I'd also buy a deeper sink so water won't splatter every where. And I'd keep a small hand sink near the half height swinging door.

Speaking of the half height swinging door, you might as will just not have one because soon or later someone will be on the wrong side of the swing.

Regarding water. You can contact cirqua and have your water tested for free. They are very knowledgeable, and have great system. Of course they want to sell you their system, but in my case the people at the company was honest to a fault. They told me I don't need anything other than a simple sediment filter. I was lucky, but Florida, at least Boca, has terrible water.
 
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T

tlowing

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Cocoa Beach, FL
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Thanks topher.


topher said:
tlowing I'm a few hours south of you...when you get closer to roasting hit me up maybe I can throw some pointers your way...I have used the roaster you are looking at..and by the way good choice it kicks butt! Oh well good luck! :wink:
 
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T

tlowing

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Crazy, I just got 3 new Super Jolly's for $330ea shipped off ebay. Hell of a deal.


ElPugDiablo said:
You probably don't need a Mazzer Major for decaf. A Mazzer mini or next size up, Super Jolly will be enough.
 

CCafe

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Des Moines, Iowa
Looking at your equipment you speced 1/4" water line for the Bunn. Its actually a 3/8" flare inlet. If you have any other equipment on the same line you may even want to upgrade to 1/2" water line.

Mazzer Major's are nice grinders but probably overkill for you. I would suggest a Mazzer Super Jolly instead. Slightly smaller burrs and cost half as much. Some people do a lot of decaf and some don't. You might even want to consider a Mazzer Mini for decaf.

For your espresso machine I would spec out a 30 or even a 50 amp circuit. If you find your little 2 group isn't cutting it you won't have to hire an electrician to rewire a bigger circuit after the fact. There are plenty of 3 and 4 group machines out there with 6,000 - 8,000 watt elements.

You might want to consider purchasing some airpots. If you have a slow time its far better to brew a half batch into an airpot to have a full pot vs have a half full TF.

As for you water filtration it doesn't matter who you really pick in the end. Your best bet is to have one system that services all water related equipment. For a store your size you'll most likely spend around $1,000 - $1,500 for the system and another $500 - $1,000 to have the plumber install it.

I see you have listed a POS system and a cash register. A simple cash register is far cheaper then a POS system. Most POS systems run between $3,000 - $5,000.
 

CCafe

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Des Moines, Iowa
tlowing said:
Crazy, I just got 3 new Super Jolly's for $330ea shipped off ebay. Hell of a deal.


ElPugDiablo said:
You probably don't need a Mazzer Major for decaf. A Mazzer mini or next size up, Super Jolly will be enough.

The only problem is you picked up 3 doserless grinders. I'm always leery buying from someone with no feedback and who is running a dutch sale with new equipment.
 
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tlowing

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Cocoa Beach, FL
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Me too, I called them first to verify that they were legit. Paramount Coffee in Lansing Michigan. First time they are sellign their overstock on eBay. 15 units sold in like two hours. I didn't instant pay though. Might give it a day.


CCafe said:
tlowing said:
Crazy, I just got 3 new Super Jolly's for $330ea shipped off ebay. Hell of a deal.


ElPugDiablo said:
You probably don't need a Mazzer Major for decaf. A Mazzer mini or next size up, Super Jolly will be enough.

The only problem is you picked up 3 doserless grinders. I'm always leery buying from someone with no feedback and who is running a dutch sale with new equipment.
 
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