Help Please: Questions About Naturals - Disappearing Fruit Notes

salmonfilet

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Jan 10, 2020
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So I've experienced this with every bag of natural process (dry, honey, etc) coffee I've ever purchased. The first cup I brew after opening the bag has all of the fruit/wine/fermenty-ness that you'd expect, but after about day 3 of the bag being open it completely disappears - in the nose, tasting notes, everything. These are super fresh beans from different specialty roasters, with big bloom and opened within a couple days of roast date.

Is this common with naturals? Are those notes particularly sensitive to oxidation, as to completely disappear within a couple days? I seal up the bag tightly and it doesn't seem like cafes go through any great length to vacuum seal their beans between use. My brewing technique is fairly standardized between cups, but any brew suggestions that might help pull these notes out are appreciated. I typically use a V60 or Kalita with a 3-3:30 min brew time.
 

truthinthedetail

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Jan 10, 2020
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Definitely an age old problem. I just made a cup from a bag of fresh beans I bought this morning. The bloom was so violent, it almost spilled over the sides of my Fellow Stag X. But in a few days, I guarantee that the grind will just sit there after I add water. And I keep my beans in a nearly air-tight AirScape. Maddening.


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Musicphan

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May 11, 2014
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Kansas City
Definitely an age old problem. I just made a cup from a bag of fresh beans I bought this morning. The bloom was so violent, it almost spilled over the sides of my Fellow Stag X. But in a few days, I guarantee that the grind will just sit there after I add water. And I keep my beans in a nearly air-tight AirScape. Maddening.
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Well ... that's not really the same 'issue'. The crazy bloom is due to the fact that beans are releasing CO2 as a result of being roasted. This is a natural occurrence and will dissipate after a few days. The loss of fruity notes is simply the beans - or at least I have not seen anything I can do as a roaster to adjust the length / longevity of fruity notes.
 
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salmonfilet

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Thanks for weighing in. It would be kind of a relief to know that this is common with naturals so I can stop wondering how to fix it. I know that freshness is rapidly lost, but it seems odd that notes which are (almost) obnoxiously fruity/fermenty on day 1 are virtually non-existent on day 3.
 

truthinthedetail

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Jan 10, 2020
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Well ... that's not really the same 'issue'. The crazy bloom is due to the fact that beans are releasing CO2 as a result of being roasted. This is a natural occurrence and will dissipate after a few days. The loss of fruity notes is simply the beans - or at least I have not seen anything I can do as a roaster to adjust the length / longevity of fruity notes.

My point was that after a few days, everything about the beans begins to deteriorate. Taste, freshness, co2, etc.
 

JDbrews1742

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Feb 22, 2020
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I keep my beans in AirScape containers. I have not noticed a big loss in fruit/floral/tea notes over the 8+ days it takes me to finish a bag. (Immersion brew)
 

Thatonebaristaguy

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Mar 30, 2020
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New Jersey
So I've experienced this with every bag of natural process (dry, honey, etc) coffee I've ever purchased. The first cup I brew after opening the bag has all of the fruit/wine/fermenty-ness that you'd expect, but after about day 3 of the bag being open it completely disappears - in the nose, tasting notes, everything. These are super fresh beans from different specialty roasters, with big bloom and opened within a couple days of roast date.

Is this common with naturals? Are those notes particularly sensitive to oxidation, as to completely disappear within a couple days? I seal up the bag tightly and it doesn't seem like cafes go through any great length to vacuum seal their beans between use. My brewing technique is fairly standardized between cups, but any brew suggestions that might help pull these notes out are appreciated. I typically use a V60 or Kalita with a 3-3:30 min brew time.

I work for a company called modcup in New Jersey and here we mostly roast naturally processed coffees. We've actually switched to holding all of our coffee into vacuum sealed Atmos jars that have helped extend the longevity of our coffee. As natrual coffees go, i personally choose to add about 3-5g of coffee as it ages out and noticed that I was able to bring some of the fruit notes that were missed along the way. If you decide to add more coffee as a way to bring fruit into the equation, try also slightly coarsening up your grind size in order to add more acidity into your cup which will lead to natural sweetness.
 
Mar 8, 2020
12
1
I work for a company called modcup in New Jersey and here we mostly roast naturally processed coffees. We've actually switched to holding all of our coffee into vacuum sealed Atmos jars that have helped extend the longevity of our coffee. As natrual coffees go, i personally choose to add about 3-5g of coffee as it ages out and noticed that I was able to bring some of the fruit notes that were missed along the way. If you decide to add more coffee as a way to bring fruit into the equation, try also slightly coarsening up your grind size in order to add more acidity into your cup which will lead to natural sweetness.

Do you have any good brew techniques or can you recommend a particular technique on youtube for someone brewing naturals with an Aero Press?
 

Thatonebaristaguy

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Mar 30, 2020
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New Jersey
Do you have any good brew techniques or can you recommend a particular technique on youtube for someone brewing naturals with an Aero Press?

My personal favorite aeropress recipe is really good at pulling body out of a coffee as well as giving you a bit more of a punch on the notes. It is as follows, 20g of coffee in, 40g of water to bloom (give it a stir for even saturation and let it bloom for 30 seconds), pour up to 250g of water and let it steep up to the 2min mark(stirring one final time before the press down). The press down should take roughly 30 seconds and does not need any dilution in the cup. Please let me know if this recipe worked for you! I love hearing feedback and helping people with brewing is something i thoroughly miss currently. Stay caffeinated!
 
Mar 8, 2020
12
1
My personal favorite aeropress recipe is really good at pulling body out of a coffee as well as giving you a bit more of a punch on the notes. It is as follows, 20g of coffee in, 40g of water to bloom (give it a stir for even saturation and let it bloom for 30 seconds), pour up to 250g of water and let it steep up to the 2min mark(stirring one final time before the press down). The press down should take roughly 30 seconds and does not need any dilution in the cup. Please let me know if this recipe worked for you! I love hearing feedback and helping people with brewing is something i thoroughly miss currently. Stay caffeinated!

Your recipe is very similar to what I do currently. I normally do a 20g medium course grind with a mesh metal filter (I find the paper filters remove too many flavor oils). I pour in 40g (yet I don't stir it), I then set a timer for 1 minute and 30 seconds, and I then proceed to pour the remaining 160g of water for a total of 200g. I wait until there is 30 seconds left on the timer and I proceed with the final press for the remaining time. I then pour another 100g into the cup for the finished product.

Thank you for for taking the time to share your recipe. I'm going to try your method right now and let you know the results!

EDIT:

I tried your recipe! I think the extra time steeping definitely enhanced the flavor of the cup. There is a complexity that isn't there with my own method. Truth be told, I ended up diluting the cup on the back end with 100g of water because the coffee was just a little too strong for me personally. However, when I did so, the coffee really opened up and the flavors came through. Thanks again for sharing! I really appreciate it.
 
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Thatonebaristaguy

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Mar 30, 2020
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New Jersey
I'm so glad to hear that you tried out this recipe and it worked out for you! There's no shame in adding a little water at the end to open the coffee more to your own personal taste. If you have any questions feel free to message me. I'm always happy to help.
 
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salmonfilet

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Jan 10, 2020
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I work for a company called modcup in New Jersey and here we mostly roast naturally processed coffees. We've actually switched to holding all of our coffee into vacuum sealed Atmos jars that have helped extend the longevity of our coffee. As natrual coffees go, i personally choose to add about 3-5g of coffee as it ages out and noticed that I was able to bring some of the fruit notes that were missed along the way. If you decide to add more coffee as a way to bring fruit into the equation, try also slightly coarsening up your grind size in order to add more acidity into your cup which will lead to natural sweetness.

Awesome, thanks for weighing in. I'll try up-dosing it, but wouldn't coursening it reduce the draw down time, thereby making the extra coffee irrelevant? Or is there a sweet spot where you're still increasing the draw down time? Have you tried keeping the same dose and grinding finer? Just curious, as that didn't seem to work for me.

The vacuum storage seems like a winning idea, just hadn't seen any containers with reviews that inspired confidence.
 
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salmonfilet

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Jan 10, 2020
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Your recipe is very similar to what I do currently. I normally do a 20g medium course grind with a mesh metal filter (I find the paper filters remove too many flavor oils). I pour in 40g (yet I don't stir it), I then set a timer for 1 minute and 30 seconds, and I then proceed to pour the remaining 160g of water for a total of 200g. I wait until there is 30 seconds left on the timer and I proceed with the final press for the remaining time. I then pour another 100g into the cup for the finished product.

Thank you for for taking the time to share your recipe. I'm going to try your method right now and let you know the results!

EDIT:

I tried your recipe! I think the extra time steeping definitely enhanced the flavor of the cup. There is a complexity that isn't there with my own method. Truth be told, I ended up diluting the cup on the back end with 100g of water because the coffee was just a little too strong for me personally. However, when I did so, the coffee really opened up and the flavors came through. Thanks again for sharing! I really appreciate it.

The extra brew time has helped with mine also. It seems like a lot of the recipes floating around online use very short brew times, and sometimes coupled with very low temps. Neither of which ever produced great cups for me. I think a lot of techniques that work on day 1 out of the bag don't work for day 3 and beyond.
 
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