Pour Over Long Extraction Time: Sour and bitter

[Jared]

Hi all! I use a Kalita Wave 185 for my pour over method. I typically do 21g coffee and 400g water. I use an Oxo conical burr grinder. I also have cut a small circle of stainless steel screen to put between my filter and the wave so that the filter doesn't get into the holes, as it sometimes does. I heat my water to 203F in a house neck kettle. I typically adjust my grind to get an extraction Time between 3 and 4 minutes which includes 45 second bloom of about 60g water.

The problem is that I'm finding my grind with this particular roast I have must be very coarse to get under 4 minutes. That's a setting of 13 on my grinder where max is 15. The coffee tastes amazing, for the first sip. Then it is relatively sour as it cools. If I increase extraction Time by grinding finer, it removes the sour, but becomes bitter due to over extraction.

Could this be the temperature and humidity in my home? The beans are fresh and from a roaster I really enjoy. Any tips?

 

[Musicphan]

I don't think temp / humidity is affecting anything... I think it's more your extraction time. IMO you are most likely over extracting the coffee. Most people including myself brew a Kalita much faster - usually around 3:30 total brew time with bloom.

https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/brew-guides/kalita-wave

 

[Jared]

Thanks for the response. The problem is that it is also sour; i.e. under extracted. I assume because the grind is so coarse. The only way for me to decrease the extraction Time is to go even coarser, correct? My screen has helped a little, but not much. I'm wondering if this coffee is generating a lot of fine particles as well as the normal grind? The coffee is a medium roast, but fermented with a bavarian yeast.

 

[Musicphan]

Yes... increase your grind size. I also looked at your ratio... typically with a Kalita the sweet spot is 15:1 > 17.1. So with 400g water you should be using approx 26.6g > 23g of coffee. Start with the basics. As far as fermented with bavarian yeast, I have no idea what that would be.

 

[Jared]

Ok, thank you. I'll increase the amount of coffee and the grind size. The coffee roaster is Dark Matter in Chicago and they have some roasts that they ferment. I'll mail them as well and ask if that process changes any of the physical characteristics that may affect brewing style.

 

[Jared]

Update: Increasing volume has definitely helped. For one, it has significantly decreased extraction time. I still haven't figured out why, but I'm rolling with this. That has allowed me to grind my coffee with a finer setting and remove sourness. I'm hoping this improves the rest of my coffees as well, although I hadn't had any issues with others at my higher ratio, this should make them even better. To make my life easy, I am doing 25g/400g.

 

[Musicphan]

Update: Increasing volume has definitely helped. For one, it has significantly decreased extraction time. I still haven't figured out why, but I'm rolling with this. That has allowed me to grind my coffee with a finer setting and remove sourness. I'm hoping this improves the rest of my coffees as well, although I hadn't had any issues with others at my higher ratio, this should make them even better. To make my life easy, I am doing 25g/400g.

I use that ratio to start any new coffee out.. then adjust per the coffee. Dark Matters does a great job (love the little tiny shop around the corner) .. love em. I would image during the processing they add yeast to increase fermentation & sugars.

 

[Roger47]

Hi all! I use a Kalita Wave 185 for my pour over method. I typically do 21g coffee and 400g water. I use an Oxo conical burr grinder. I also have cut a small circle of stainless steel screen to put between my filter and the wave so that the filter doesn't get into the holes, as it sometimes does. I heat my water to 203F in a house neck kettle. I typically adjust my grind to get an extraction Time between 3 and 4 minutes which includes 45 second bloom of about 60g water.

The problem is that I'm finding my grind with this particular roast I have must be very coarse to get under 4 minutes. That's a setting of 13 on my grinder where max is 15. The coffee tastes amazing, for the first sip. Then it is relatively sour as it cools. If I increase extraction Time by grinding finer, it removes the sour, but becomes bitter due to over extraction.

Could this be the temperature and humidity in my home? The beans are fresh and from a roaster I really enjoy. Any tips?

After many years of studying the art of brewing and taking into account the many findings from the professionals; There is no such thing as "over extraction".

Bitter coffee is the result of extreme temperature, above 96C. If over extraction existed in time only, it would be impossible to achieve a quality "Cold" Brew" which requires approximately 12-24 hours to brew. I have developed a brewing method that requires 30 minutes using a stainless steel "Double Walled" French Press (FP). It isn't a thermos type design with a vacuum, just a double wall. The plunger is not used.

Try this if you're not in a hurry for your coffee. Premeasure the water in the FP and pour into a kettle. Pour cold tap water into the FP while the water comes to the boil. Grind the coffee to the mid point of "Auto Drip". When the water is boiled, pour out the cold tap water and pour in the boiled water. Wait a few seconds, pour in the coffee and cover the FP with a plastic lid from a yogurt container or something similar. Coffee extracts more efficiently at the surface. Allow the coffee to brew itself.

After 30 minutes, remove the cover. You will notice that the coffee is fully saturated and also fully extracted. With a spoon, poke the saturated coffee to allow it to settle. Remove all foam and other floating material. (Removing the foam also removes the unwanted oils that apparently are not good for your cholesterol). If the coffee is bitter or sour, the initial temperature was greater than 96C. Pour the coffee into a thermal carafe being careful to not disturb the settled grinds. You will love the coffee, if you're willing to wait. This method will transform mediocre coffee into very good coffee.

 

[wstsider]

After many years of studying the art of brewing and taking into account the many findings from the professionals; There is no such thing as "over extraction".

Bitter coffee is the result of extreme temperature, above 96C. If over extraction existed in time only, it would be impossible to achieve a quality "Cold" Brew" which requires approximately 12-24 hours to brew. I have developed a brewing method that requires 30 minutes using a stainless steel "Double Walled" French Press (FP). It isn't a thermos type design with a vacuum, just a double wall. The plunger is not used.

Try this if you're not in a hurry for your coffee. Premeasure the water in the FP and pour into a kettle. Pour cold tap water into the FP while the water comes to the boil. Grind the coffee to the mid point of "Auto Drip". When the water is boiled, pour out the cold tap water and pour in the boiled water. Wait a few seconds, pour in the coffee and cover the FP with a plastic lid from a yogurt container or something similar. Coffee extracts more efficiently at the surface. Allow the coffee to brew itself.

After 30 minutes, remove the cover. You will notice that the coffee is fully saturated and also fully extracted. With a spoon, poke the saturated coffee to allow it to settle. Remove all foam and other floating material. (Removing the foam also removes the unwanted oils that apparently are not good for your cholesterol). If the coffee is bitter or sour, the initial temperature was greater than 96C. Pour the coffee into a thermal carafe being careful to not disturb the settled grinds. You will love the coffee, if you're willing to wait. This method will transform mediocre coffee into very good coffee.

Can you make a video I would like to see this extraction method