Roasting & Recipe Help Please

[expat]

I guess a little about me so you'll understand where I'm coming from.

I moved my family from America to Ireland in 2009. I lived all over the world as a kid and wanted my kids to see the world from a different perspective. We chose Ireland because it was close enough to the U.S. (time zone wise) that I could run my U.S. business on the phone and web. And they speak English. Well, my business is tied into the housing market and just like the housing market it is just about dead. So we had to figure out a way to make some Euros.

For 20 years my wife and I have been talking about coffee roasting so we figured, given Ireland's nascent specialty coffee industry, that that was what we would do. We had about a day's roaster training and that's it. It has been learn by the seat of our pants since starting early this year.

So we started with two blends -- an all day and a mocha-java.

The all day is
70% Brazil santos
15% Kenya Acacia
15% Ethiopia Yirgacheffe

It is good but temperamental. Roast it too lightly and it tastes watery. Roast it too dark, like well into 2nd crack, and it gets a sour sock finish. Roast it just right and it is nice.

But judging this blend from first crack into second crack has proven very difficult. It's like there is no lull between the two. The roast just keeps rolling form 1st crack to 2nd and then, hey, uh-oh, we better get this in the cooling tray.

So, any suggestions on roasting? Or maybe a suggestion on changing the recipe to something else that you've had good success with as an all day type of coffee --- blend or single origin?

The mocha-java is
66.6% Sumatra Lintong
33.3% Ethiopian Yirgacheffe

This is a really nice coffee. But suggestions please on where best it would be to roast this coffee to? We definitely like it to 2nd crack but then how far into 2nd crack would you suggest? We've been told too far into 2nd and we'll kill the nice fruity qualities of the Ethiopian but we've not developed enough of a sensitive pallate to know where that is. And we did roast one batch too far and got a really dark, shiny batch, but boy did it taste good! Deep, rich, chocolatey. Wonderful. But then we did a roast somewhere between that "mistake" and the start of rolling 2nd crack and it just killed the taste.

Any ideas, suggestions, recipes would be very much appreciated!

Also anyone interested in a Roasting & Recipe Forum? I found that most of the posts in the Coffee Roaster section are about advice on buying and selling roasters.

Thanks for your feedback!!!

 

[dstrand]

Hi Expat,

You're figuring out that the most important thing in coffee roasting is consistency. What's the sense of creating a wonderful blend if you can't repeat it?

It would help if you could give a little more information;
What kind of roaster are you using?
Does it have temp control?
Can you read the temperature?
How long does it take to cool down once you've dumped it in the cooling tray?


This will do to start.

Regards,
Dave S.

 

[expat]

Dave, yes, absolutely!, consistency is key. We're trying. Now that my wife is the official "roastmistress" I expect consistency to improve. My bean broker says after 50 years in the business he feels that consistent roasting is the hardest skill to master.

My roaster is a 10kg Ozturk and the coffee that "went off" was a 10kg batch.

I have temp control via an air valve on the exhaust so I can open or close that.

Otherwise I don't have much, if any control.

I can read the drum temperature and the exhaust temperature.

As to cooling time in the cooling tray I haven't kept track of that but the system is fairly efficient. If say a smoking hot batch of beans is completely cold, and the cooling tray cold as well, in 6-7 minutes.

 

[eldub]

I'm new to the roasting process, but I know my way around a kitchen...

Is it possible your temps in the roaster are too high? I ask because it sounds like going immediately from the first to second crack could be caused by too high temps. My gut instinct says to consider attempting to slow down the roasting process a bit. Maybe start with a higher temp and then increasing air flow into roaster as beans approach first crack to lower temps or at least stabilize so process isn't rushed.

Good luck.

lw

 

[expat]

I'll look at that, certainly. But one thing with the "all day blend" is the way it goes from first crack to second. You get first crack in 13-14 minutes, then a slow build up to a rolling crack, then the cracking slows, then you're into second crack. There is never a quiet period between the two crack phases.

This is in sharp contrast to our mocha-java roast where you hit first crack, then rolling first crack, then a slowing of the cracking, then a definite silence, a minutes long lull before you hit second crack.

So there is a great difference between the two roasts, and a great difference in beans which I attribute to the differences in the crack(ing) profile.

 

[eldub]

Moisture content and bean size probably influence the cracking process, no? If there is a big difference in size, have you considered roasting the components individually before blending?

Also, how long do you allow the blended beans to equalize moisture content before roasting? I understand this is an important step if roasting mixed batches. I've been told to make the blend and then allow the beans to remain in the same container for a period of time before roasting.

lw

 

[expat]

With your thoughts about moisture content you are on one of our tracks of thinking.

We live in Ireland. It is wet here. Actually we live in the west of Ireland, where it is triple wet so while our little roastery is built very "tight" we still fret about moisture content. To that end we do premix our beans and when possible, not always, let them sit together for several days and always for at least 24 hours if an unforeseen order comes in (we try to roast and bag right away so we don't have roasted beans sitting around in bins).

We've also considered roasting the beans separately but that presents a problem if you've got a bean that is 15% of your mix and you've got a 10kg roaster. You need to roast 6 or 7kg at least of that bean (at least I do as an inexperienced roaster), and then what do you do with the extra that you don't put in your blend? Well you bin it up of course but no bin is completely air tight and I've got a very humid environment. So I worry about moisture content pre- and post-roast.

It is just amazing to me how many variables there are when you're roasting. No wonder I saw a roaster on YouTube saying he has been roasting for 20 years and learns something new every day. Hmmm, I'm less than 1/20th of his experience so you can see why I appreciate input from folks like you!

 

[eldub]

It sounds like you need to sell a larger volume of beans. especially if working with a 10 kg roaster. Have you considered wholesaling your roasted beans to local businesses, churches, Dr's offices, hospitals and cafes? Make some phone calls, knock on doors, bring samples of your product to prospective customers and offer them beans at 35% under retail price. You will create awareness and demand for your product this way and be able to take advantage of the roaster's capacity. Either that, or it appears you need a smaller roaster.

Good luck.

scott

 

[PinkRose]

I'm curious.

For the most part do local businesses, churches, Dr's offices, hospitals, and cafes get whole beans? Do you charge more to grind them? I really can't imagine them grinding their own coffee, but you never know...

Rose

 

[eldub]

Most will prolly want the beans ground. No problem grinding the beans for customers for free, imo. I'd bring samples of both ground and whole for potential customers perusal.

lw

 

[Hankua]

My two cents is to roast the beans separately; even if that means changing your recipe. you should be able to roast at 50% capacity and with some work even less. The other thing is to get more control over the gas situation. Do you set the pid and only control the air? If that's the case some modification of the gas line with a needle valve might help; someone else will have to chime in on that. Last year I ran into someone in my club who disabled the profiling on his roaster and uses a gas valve, eyes, ears, and his nose. Somehow or way you folks need to get some control over the roast development time between 1C and finish.

 

[expat]

Thanks for everyone's replies. They're helpful.

One thing, since it was suggested earlier that I just get out and pound the pavement and the volume will come, I have! And I've learned that the Irish market is nothinig like the U.S. market. When you go to doctor's offices, businesses, garages, etc., looking to sell coffee for their break room you find they have no coffee brewing equipment. Many people do not even know how to brew coffee. It's true! They have a kettle for boiling water and then it is tea or instant coffee.

When you go to hotels, quick-shops, etc., you find that they have a contract where they get free coffee brewing equipment (a 600 euro automatic coffee grinder espresso machine) that the coffee company gave them as long as they buy their awful beans. I guess the up side is when someone does taste a good cup of coffee it is usually a revelation to them.

Ireland is a tea country first and then an instant coffee country second. Easily 80% of the coffee on the store shelf is instant. Yuk!

Since I have made little headway with direct sales, and school fundraisers, and hotel sales, etc., etc., I have found some acceptance in the supermarkets. Slow going though as we're doing tastings every Friday and Saturday (and that comes at a cost!). All day affairs where we set-up in-store and serve coffee all day. It is interesting the feedback you get. Some folks tell you "your coffee is lovely" but they prefer the harsh taste of the instant. They've been drinking it all their lives and they've come to like it.

Also your coffee won't be appreciated, except by a few, for its subtle taste nuances. One reason is the 50/50 ratio many use-- 50% coffee/50% milk. So a lightly roasted coffee doesn't make it because it doesn't "hold" the milk like a bolder roast.

While we're greateful for the sales outlet profit margins are knocked down about 60% or so. Ugh!, which makes things really slow going.

Next is the Farmer's Markets. Most are small and not worth the $8.50/gallon gas to drive there and set up (and you thought you had it bad at $4/gal :decaf:. But we have hopes for one of the large FMs and will know in a couple of weeks if we get a slot. That could be a help.

So that's the story from the Emerald Isle.

 

[eldub]

Interesting. Sounds like a crazy coffee market. Hats off for pounding the pavement, though. Hopefully the farmers markets will treat you better.

What about coffee shops and fine restaurants?

Good luck and keep your chin up.

lw

 

[PinkRose]

Hi "expat"

I admire your persistence. Something good is sure to come your way.

I was reading your message, and I stopped cold when I read that gas is $8.50 a gallon. Geez...I would have to trade my car in for a bicycle!

Hang in there and, please keep us updated.

Rose

 

[CreativePile]

As simple as this sounds, adding a stick of cinnamon into your grinds makes the coffe taste so so good.