Scott Rao's Roaster Companion - Opinions?

[HillofBeans]

Any opinions on Scott Rao's new roaster's companion and his commandments regarding:
declining ROR
and first crack should begin at between 75%–80% of total roast time?

Do these numbers jive with your profiles?

• :decaf:
  

 

[chast]

My very first crack is at 376 then they go crazy around 384-386 I usually dump between 435-445
to lazy to do the equation to answer yes or no

 

[John P]

I like Scott's approach, although I don't necessarily agree with everything he says. In this case, based on traditional roasting methods, I do believe his reasoning is sound and the evidence is there to support it. Essentially he is telling you this because (my own thoughts & words) "coffee needs to be developed through the roasting process" and "if the roast is underdeveloped or overdeveloped, you will miss that 'sweet spot' that each coffee gives you." And in the end, the proof is in the cup. He's done a whole lot of cupping... probably 20,000+

My roaster uses laser refractometry, so I don't rely on archaic and unreliable methods such as "first crack". I've done all that many, many times and am thankful to understand the interaction between science and art.

 

[sae]

I think you'll find the RoR decreases naturally as the roast progresses if you're not too heavy on the gas. I can say that the 20% time after first crack is very close to where we are with our roasts so I would agree with that.

 

[HillofBeans]

The idea of only decreasing gas as opposed to going up and down to regulate the end of the roast is kind of restricting

 

[sae]

HillofBeans: I think if you have to add a lot of heat late in the roast you'll be able to taste it in the profile. I also think it's an indication that you didn't plan out the roast well.

 

[HillofBeans]

i like to reduce gas to keep the Ror from popping up at FC and then tweek up a little to keep things going- besides other adjustments earlier as well

 

[Redswing]

RoR...does that mean "rate of roast"? Slowing down the speed at which the beans are increasing temp?

Willem Boot suggests as a general idea(not a commandment...immediately I am skeptical at the use of that word), 1C around 8 min, finish 3-5 min later.

 

[sae]

RoR = Rate of rise. The speed at which the beans are increasing in temperatures. Depends on the roaster but it's usually about 30*F/min

Personally I think that a first crack at 8 with a longer finish time is OK but if you've ever tried to do that roast you'll find out very quickly that's it's very hard to maintain a positive RoR while stretching out so long. You can get great results but it's risky. More risk but potential for more reward also.

 

[Redswing]

After doing some reading on Scott's new book, I think I'll have to check it out.

 

[eldub]

RoR = Rate of rise. The speed at which the beans are increasing in temperatures. Depends on the roaster but it's usually about 30*F/min

Personally I think that a first crack at 8 with a longer finish time is OK but if you've ever tried to do that roast you'll find out very quickly that's it's very hard to maintain a positive RoR while stretching out so long. You can get great results but it's risky. More risk but potential for more reward also.

Focusing on RoR is the way I learned to roast. The usual rate of increase would be 20*F/min. (I may start out at 30*/min during the drying phase.) At first crack, I usually slow that rate of rise to 15*F/min. The only time I increase the RoR after first crack begins is when I'm roasting dark. I'll go back to a 20*F rise per minute in the middle of second crack until finish in order to preserve a bit of bean characteristic for our dark offerings.

 

[John P]

RoR (and where it's rising from and to) for me depends on whether it's SHB, or soft like Brazil, large and porous like Margogype, Maracaturra, or Geisha, or a peaberry... and big difference between Kenyan or Ethiopian peaberry and Sumatra peaberry.

Every roaster (machine) is different, along with different environmental factors and other crazy factors as well. Even if we were all aiming for the same type of roast, we'd need slightly different paths and methodologies to get there due to these realities. It's no different than wondering why the espresso you pulled on your Nuova Simonelli in Long Beach with your Mazzer Kony E tasted quite different than the exact same espresso, pulled at the exact same dose, temperature, and time on a LaMarzocco and Compak grinder in Peoria.

And in my case, roasting at altitude in an extremely dry environment is quite different than roasting at normal (sea level) altitude. It's simply not the same, and if you treat it the same then your results will always be lacking. I would compile loads of data, and write the "Definitive Guide to High Altitude Roasting", but I fear I would only sell about ten copies.

 

[eldub]

Of course we treat the soft beans with kid gloves and whip the SHB's a bit, well, harder.

 

[curlyjohnston]

Being a novice roaster, only been at this for about a year, living within his perimeters or his "commandments" has helped me achieve good palatable coffee every time. I still have so much to understand...

 

[jamestooill]

I enjoyed the book. And have been recommending it to coworkers who want to learn more about roasting. The commandment about a constantly falling rate of rise is something that 90% of our profiles reflected before the book came out. And I'm not ashamed to admit that after reading the book and we did a quick review of the profiles and found that re-working those last 10% made those coffees taste better.
We have also, thanks to Cropster, started thinking about the time from 1st crack to finish as % of the roast instead of purely in number of seconds. I have not, however, found the time frame of 20%-25% to be where we most enjoy all of our coffees. We have a few that never taste better to us than when that number is closer to 17% As he and many others will note the beginning of 1st can be quite up for debate even among two roasters at the same machine.
Overall, impressed by the book and it made us a better team of roasters.