Newbie here, need espresso machine advice!

[Blueridger]

I have been reading for months and trying to make some decisions. We are in the process of opening a coffee shop and trying to decide on an espresso machine. I need help trying to figure out which brand of machine? We are leaning towards a semi-automatic. We will be located one block off campus of a major university. Not sure what the traffic flow will be, no drive thru. Approximately 1250 sq ft for the seating area. I am guessing a 2 group is big enough or perhaps a 3? Nope, money does not grow on trees in my back yard so we will be purchasing a used espresso machine. Any help, kind advice would greatly be appreciated!

 

[chast]

You need to be very careful buying a used espresso machine.....you can be burnt very easily and not by the steam wand. 2500.00 give or take a little will buy you a new semi. Most likely a single but it would be a starting point until business booms and you can afford to purchase a 2 group. Lot of machines are not UL stamped/approved/listed so if your area requires this then you need to find one that does. Lots of shops have equipment that is not UL and depending on the town and building inspectors some are allowed to get away with it. A single group with extra portafilters worked for me when I started

 

[PinkRose]

Hello "Blueridger"

Welcome to the Coffee Forums.

Since you say you've been lurking for months, did you see any of the threads where people have offered suggestions about espresso machines?

Are you familiar with espresso machines and how to operate them? Will you be hiring a barista?

How will you find a used machine? Are you near a local place that sells them, or are you looking for suggestions (and possible a seller) here within the Coffee Forums?

Being located one block from a university doesn't guarantee that you'll get a lot of traffic into your cafe, but you never know . . . . Did you research and count the foot (and vehicle) traffic going past the location? It would be a shame to buy a 2 group machine, and then wish that you had gotten one with a 3 heads.

Rose

 

[Blueridger]

I am totally aware that I can get burnt on a used machine just like a used car, I get that! I don't want to buy a lemon, that is one of the reasons I am asking what brands you guys recommend. I realize that opening a coffee shop is risky business, well in this economy any business is risky business. That is WHY I am asking you guys!!! Yes I have read the threads, yes I have done my foot count, about 1/2 block from my building is one of the busiest foot traffic intersections in this town. (in sight distance).

 

[PinkRose]

I'm wondering if the title of this thread should be changed so people won't skip over it.

 

[Blueridger]

I'm wondering if the title of this thread should be changed so people won't skip over it.

I will go do that now, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[CCafe]

First and foremost find a reputable dealer who can also service your equipment. After that call them up and demo the equipment. We can list brands here all day long until the cows come home but what it really boils down to at the end of the day is who is your local repair guy. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times, find a company who is close to you that will service your equipment.

Once you have done this, then you can come back here and tell us all the used brands they have to offer you.

 

[Blueridger]

There are actually two different repair guys within a 2 hour drive, both have 10+ years of experience, they both service all major brand machines. Nuova Simonelli, La Cimballi, Faema. Astoria...well yep the list goes on.

 

[slurp]

Which ever machine you buy remember it has to work and you do not want to be scrabbling to get a service guy to come with in a few hours. Word travels fast on social media. Also most busy shops have many machines to reduce down time. intelligentsia coffee in Venice beach has 7 if I remember correctly, although that is a bit over kill.


Sounds like your set on getting a used machine. Do you have a budget? Maybe you look at the new and used machines in your budget.

 

[Blueridger]

I have also thought about having a back-up espresso machine too. Yes we have a budget.

Yes I have compared prices for used and new, it seems I cannot get a straight answer. I just wonder how many of you guys that are now in the big time started out small, on used equipment and wondering will anybody drink my coffee????!!!! Sorry but I asked this question days ago, and yes I have a budget, yes I have and still am researching, yes I have counted foot traffic, yes I know how much rent is, yes I know....that is NOT my question! Sorry to sound rude, not a single person seems to want to give an honest answer on a brand name for an espresso machine and how many group heads?! I hope that some day when our coffee shop is successful that I personally will be able to help someone out.

 

[John P]

Blueridger,

This is not just for you, but for everyone who is thinking about and/or in the process of opening a coffee shop. An espresso machine is not an afterthought. The time you take to understand, know, and invest in a quality espresso machine and, even moreseo, how to pull a great shot of espresso will be a clear indication of your chances for success in this business.

Now if you don't care about how good the main ingredient for all of your espresso based drinks is, then by all means, buy whatever machine comes your way. And remember, with very little exception, the maintenance ppl are experts at maintaining machines and, unless captive, at assessing the durability of X machine. They are not experts at making espresso. Great machines rarely need major service, just basic maintenance.

There's a difference between "having a budget" and "not being able to afford to open a shop yet." If, for instance, the difference between $5K and $10K would be beyond your budget, then you do not have the funds necessary to open. And pick any spread of $5K, whether it's 3 and 8 or 9 and 14, it's nickels and dimes in the greater scheme. Opening a coffee shop can be done on a budget, but the budget needs to be realistic... and include at least 15% extra for things that you might have missed and a good $12-15K or more additional cash (some would say more) for beginning cash flow.

Find the best espresso machine you can in your area, based on industry feedback (from experts, not from Joe Yahoo who owns three shops and seems like a good guy), personal knowledge, hands-on, etc., and then find the best price you can for that machine. And if used, get if from a reputable vendor, like ones you mentioned, or a professional you know has maintained the machine properly. The espresso machine is the heart and soul of your operation. A realistic budget is sound business thinking. Being cheap is not. Be wise, not cheap.

Best to you.

 

[CCafe]

Fine here's a small list and some ideas for you.

Cimbali is often considered the cadillac of espresso machine. Its easy to work on because that is what Cimbali wanted. Since its the Caddy it comes with the price to back it up. A new M29 runs around 8 to 10K. Used one between 5 to 7 depending on what was done to bring it back up to snuff.

Nuova Simonelli is making a name for themselves for the last several years now since they threw their hat in the ring to get a SCAA competition style machine in the works that once used to be held only by La Marzocco. Not bad machines, wish they would change their boiler technology a bit and actually harden up some of the joints on the boiler. Plus side is when it comes to an overhaul swapping the boiler is pretty cheap and gets you new heat exchangers and a element.

Rancilio is still sitting quietly in the background biding their time. I'm not sure if they are going to swoop in anytime soon but they can make a comeback when ever they choose too. The Classe machine doesn't matter what number you choose is a good machine. Wish they would get with the times and incorporate 24vac or even vdc electronics and valves on EVERYTHING they own.

La Marozocco was the top dog for a long time, there are still tons of people who are die hard fans. They got here because this is what Starbucks chose to run with back in the day when they wanted a traditional machine. Its hard to beat a dual boiler setup as you'll always have separation always keeps the steam boiler piping hot while maintaining a constant brewing temperature in the brewing boiler. Dethroned and licking their wounds La Marzocco is poised for a comeback at some point. Should be interesting if they can put a machine on the market that will give you everything you want while maintaining a price point that works well for everyone.

There are a ton of manufactures on this planet that have started an idea that only the best of the best components and temperature control can only give the best espresso. For them money has no meaning and the cost of their machines are outrageous. They have taken the art form and twisted it a little further. I don't agree with this new concept because I quit caring about trying to perfect espresso. When I die I shall sit with my God and I shall be taught what a perfect espresso is and how it is made and how I could never achieve one on this earth.

 

[chast]

well I did not mention the name of the first machine I purchased, it was an Alex Duetto ll from Chris's Coffee in NY, 2300.00. What I did not realize is it is not UL approved which means my building inspector will not issue my permit while it is in my shop. I am looking at a Faema which will get the BI off my back. The AD ll did what I wanted to do and still does, but could use a two group, just need the UL. Not a big espresso area here so it will be mostly used for lattes and a few shots in the Iced coffee. I do have a small group that comes in for their daily hit which is fine with me. Not an expert on espresso machines but when I was doing what you are doing now, looking for advice ( had the same trouble ) I ended up wanting a semi with an E61 group head.

 

[peterjschmidt]

If the Alex would suffice, the La Spaz Vivaldi is similar in performance, and I believe they are UL approved, (could be wrong) and would keep you in the same price range.

 

[chast]

the Spaz is UL approved and a bit cheaper in cost....great machine to start with