Technical Question

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Fresh Roaster

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In doing some testing of roasting exhaust and analyzing exhaust content at different temperatures, I discovered, at a certain temperature, a whitish, very fine chalk like substance adhering to the ribs inside of the test pipe. It appears to be some sort of carbonate but didn't react to a test with HCL. It is 100% water soluble. Looks a little like dirty snow.

Anyone have any idea what it might be before I send it off to the lab? Topher?
 

topher

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are you sure it isn't ash from chaff burning? The only build up I get in the pipes is either creosote or chaff sticking to the creosote. Tell me what you find.
 
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My best bet was some type of carbonate. But, as I said it didn't react to an HCL test so that's pretty much in doubt. It is extremely fine. Our best guess is it's some type of sublimation. Something in the flue gas which is making it by the filters in gas form and then turning to a solid. Only happens at exhaust gas in excess of 270 F. I guess it'll have to go to the lab...
 

NW JAVA

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NEVER overanylize anything: ashe is ash, is asche

taken from:http://stormy.blogs.com/stormy/2006/02/sleep_on_it_don.html

Sleep on it, don't overanalyze it

Scientists have found that making simple choices (like what kind of dessert to have) are best done in the traditional "analyze the pros/cons" approach. However, for complex decisions like which job to take or which house to buy, you are better off gathering the data and then letting your unconscious mind make the decision. You can either "sleep on it" or, as they did in the study, you can occupy your conscious mind with other things. An important point is that in order for your unconscious mind to do a good job, you need to know you have a decision to make.
 
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Just got the results from the lab. Not good. Do you guys have any idea what you're spewing out into the atmosphere? Just curious.
 

topher

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so enlighten us...and when you say you guys are you speaking of all roasters or roasters without afterburners? If you mean all roasters wouldn't that include you?
 
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Actually Topher, anybody without an afterburner or catalyst of some sort is plain out polluting and should be shut down. What we found is that as little as 1000 pounds of coffee produces huge amounts of pure powder form caffeine. Don't let your pet hang around because it will be lethal. 1.7 ounces can be a lethal dose for humans. We roasted a couple thousand pounds and produced well over that (300 grams). In some test runs we had a few people complaining of nausea and headaches. So we decided to test further.

THe bottom line was this. Caffeine sublimes at approx. 178 C and an afterburner accelerates that allowing the caffeine to escape in pure form as a gas. Unless it is cooled and collected, it is spewed into the air in gaseous form subliming in the air upon cooling. We beat the problem at great expense. I assume you will have to do the same once our data is submitted to the EPA.
 

topher

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First off I have never seen this "white powder" that you are speaking of, also none of my employees for the past 14 years have had the symptoms you mentioned. I am getting tired of you pushing your product and insulting our trade.
 
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It exhausts as a gas and then cools to a solid. You never see it but I guarantee you've swept it up! :D Topher, it's simply a fact. You just never have studied roasting from a scientific standpoint as we have. I guarantee you that wherever you are exhausting to there will be a significant concentration of C8H10N4O2. And as I've said, the sample we had analyzed was roughly 300 grams resulting from around 1000 pounds of roasting. 50 grams is considered potentially lethal to humans.
 

Temuri

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Fresh Roaster said:
It exhausts as a gas and then cools to a solid. You never see it but I guarantee you've swept it up! :D Topher, it's simply a fact. You just never have studied roasting from a scientific standpoint as we have. I guarantee you that wherever you are exhausting to there will be a significant concentration of C8H10N4O2. And as I've said, the sample we had analyzed was roughly 300 grams resulting from around 1000 pounds of roasting. 50 grams is considered potentially lethal to humans.
Sorry but all this seems to me funny, "gaseous powder" is great invention, and especially when only you notice it.
 

NW JAVA

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" let pet eat it" Hell, I can't even have my pet in my roastery, much less am I so irrepressible as to let him be unattended. Maybe FR you need to get off your high horse and not be so presumptuous. NEVER make blanket statements, never be rude, and never be a knowitall. Unless you are. Damn, the time and effort taken to study this "powder" could have been better weel spent on roasting some great ( maybe) coffee.

My .02
 

NW JAVA

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"I guarantee you that wherever you are exhausting to there will be a significant concentration of C8H10N4O2. And as I've said, the sample we had analyzed was roughly 300 grams resulting from around 1000 pounds of roasting. 50 grams is considered potentially lethal to humans"

First off how did you capture a representative sample of this powder? was this sampling conducted multiple times? Where the samples obtained by a qualified person? Where the samples contaminated? Were proper aseptic sampling procedures followed? Let's see a copy of the lad report and assurance that what you say is even accurate.
 
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